Trailing Arm Swap: I'm very intimidated - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

indybenz · #31 07-12-2012, 09:25 AM

BIG. HUGE. DOH! Dammit. I'll start considering my other options now.

94 F250 Powerstroke most likely.

Stretch · #32 07-12-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indybenz

BIG. HUGE. DOH! Dammit. I'll start considering my other options now.

94 F250 Powerstroke most likely.

Looking at the pictures I get the impression that you haven't been as gentle as you could have been with the subframe removal. However, in the big scheme of things I think you've probably done yourself a favour - now it is clear that the rust is a serious problem.

The chances of taking a corner too fast and dissappearing over the cliff edge in a cloud of rust has been greatly reduced.

As for your comments about your friend who helped with the purchase of the vehicle I think you've got to cut the guy some slack rust can be pretty well hidden in these cars. Sellers tend to get a bit pissed off with people stabbing the whole underside with a screw driver / having a go at it with an angle grinder and a wire brush.

I thought my car was rust free when I bought it =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/body-repair-restoration/303669-my-w123-saloon-sedan-old-accident-repair-bit-rust-repair-thread.html

If you haven't already given up on the car I recommend you remove the whole subframe and take a look at the rust damage. If you are not looking to make the car perfect again with the subframe out you have loads of access to weld in patch panels and make it strong again.

I will also add that when you're fitting the new subframe bolts it can be a bit tricky. I found it easier to support the subframe at several points to make the joining surfaces parallel to each other prior to fitting the bolts.

Diesel911 · #33 07-12-2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indybenz

Here you can see how the threads are stripped and only the first several appeared to even be in the hole.

Driver's side. I did not even have any holes to put the 'holding plate' back on because they just fell out when I took it off to remove the subframe.

Thank God this side at least had that holding plate on there, and that this popped out while I was in my garage and not on the highway going over a big bump or something.

Was this bushing Pressed in Dry?

Brian Carlton · #34 07-12-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indybenz

Thanks Brian.

I trusted someone (Renntag) with the purchase of the car that, at one time, I considered a friend. He has been working with these cars for 3+ years and somehow he missed the telltale signs of the rust demons.

Live and...learn?!

Perhaps.

Vehicles are somewhat sinister and most look at them with rose colored glasses when they are out shopping. It takes a cold heart to pick a potential vehicle apart and refuse to offer a dime for it.

The fastest way to dissolve a friendship is to allow the friend to do an inspection of a vehicle for you...........or for you to do one for him.

Hopefully.

Diesel911 · #35 07-12-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indybenz

So I did it. At least I thought I did.

Good news is...I didn't die while doing the work nor while on the highway.

Bad news is...one of the huge bolts just popped out when I was raising the car today to inspect it.

It was obvious that the bolt was stripped and that it had only barely even been in the hole anyway. Not sure what could have happened but it might have been ugly.

Long story short, I spent 8+ hours trying to get the God Forsaken sonofa***** mother trucking cursed damn fracking new bushings in the subframe.

I took one out to see if it was indeed going 'up in there', and there was a mark where it had been that showed it was indeed touching the top of the space it occupies. But there was still a TON of the bushing sticking out.

I used a bobcat to put pressure on the thing and try to get the bolt in. Tried that for 4 hours with no luck.

In the end, I *thought* my father and I had finally gotten the bolts in and got them snug. I do admit I thought that one of them was stripped and the other one was snug; turns out I was wrong at least about the one I thought was snug as it's the one that popped out to reveal it was only barely in the hole.

So...now what do I do? I'm assuming the whole inside of the 'assembly' is stripped out, the bolt/s is/are stripped, and the *entire* underside of the car on the driver's side appears to be rusted out from front to back. Only thing holding all together is the *^%#@(^$ undercoating!!!

What are my options? Do I have any besides ditching the body and swapping parts? This was to be my $700 WVO experiment and so far it's more like a $4,000 poo factory that's requiring constant attention.

I'll post images in a while.

Now my Memory is not too good as I had not seen that part of my Car I guess for about 4+ years.
On a 123 I believe you can see the top of the pointed Bolt that goes through the Sub Frame Bushing when the seat or Carpet is removed (My Car is not here so I cannot take a look). If that is so one option would be to install a longer Bolt and put a Nut on the End of the Bolt that stick up.

I cannot remember houw much metal is there so cannot comment if a Helicoil or other thread repair would work.

If you run a tap through the upper internal threads what condition are they in?

Stretch · #36 07-12-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

...
The fastest way to dissolve a friendship is to allow the friend to do an inspection of a vehicle for you...........or for you to do one for him.
...

X2

And the same goes for family.

Stretch · #37 07-12-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Now my Memory is not too good as I had not seen that part of my Car I guess for about 4+ years.
On a 123 I believe you can see the top of the pointed Bolt that goes through the Sub Frame Bushing when the seat or Carpet is removed (My Car is not here so I cannot take a look). If that is so one option would be to install a longer Bolt and put a Nut on the End of the Bolt that stick up.

I cannot remember houw much metal is there so cannot comment if a Helicoil or other thread repair would work.

On my car the threaded portion is a captive nut in a closed compartment.

indybenz · #38 07-12-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Looking at the pictures I get the impression that you haven't been as gentle as you could have been with the subframe removal.

I did not take many images of the start to finish process, but I supported the subframe and gradually let it down/placed it back in using a series of wooden wedges, bobcat forks, jackstands, and a floorjack.

It might appear that I was 'rough' with it only because, well, frankly, some of the car just crumbled from rust damage during disassembly!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Sellers tend to get a bit pissed off with people stabbing the whole underside with a screw driver / having a go at it with an angle grinder and a wire brush.

True.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

If you haven't already given up on the car I recommend you remove the whole subframe and take a look at the rust damage. If you are not looking to make the car perfect again with the subframe out you have loads of access to weld in patch panels and make it strong again.

Yeah I did remove it to redo the trailing arms. The damage is primarily to what I would call 'the pan', under the passenger's feet and drivers' seat/feet.

So you think it would be possible to weld in some panels/bracing? I'm not looking for a concourse restoration, just safe/operable transportation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

I will also add that when you're fitting the new subframe bolts it can be a bit tricky. I found it easier to support the subframe at several points to make the joining surfaces parallel to each other prior to fitting the bolts.

I started by bolting up the diff mount [raising the entire subframe slowly to line everything up] and then slowly moved the rest into position, but I just could not get the bushings in far enough to get the bolts to catch, or at least it appears that's the case.

I guess I could try again [UG!!!] to get them in farther by using the various methods described here and elsewhere [your method using spring compressor, freezing them the night before, tons of proper 'lube', etc.] and see what happens. I'd still have to retap the holes and get new bolts, which is not a huge deal.

indybenz · #39 07-12-2012, 12:14 PM

Perhaps I could swap my 83 300D drivetrain [motor + AT + rearend] into an 83 240 D with an automatic transmission...as long as donor ain't rusted out!!!

My understanding is that these components will bolt up to the 240 chassis.

Brian Carlton · #40 07-12-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indybenz

Perhaps I could swap my 83 300D drivetrain [motor + AT + rearend] into an 83 240 D with an automatic transmission...as long as donor ain't rusted out!!!

My understanding is that these components will bolt up to the 240 chassis.

You can.

The chassis is the same. Both W123. One simply has a larger engine.

You might need to make a change to the front springs due to the additional weight of the five cylinder.

indybenz · #41 07-12-2012, 12:50 PM

Well that's good news. I have a bead on one locally with 350k+ miles here locally, but I did nothing but a cursory check [a few months ago] for chassis rust, and it has the 'normal' door/wheel well cancer already. $1,300 asking price.

@Diesel911: mine is the same as Army's, but I would potentially be willing to cut the top out of the hole and put an enormous bolt in there to just get me by in the meantime.

Walkenvol · #42 07-12-2012, 12:55 PM

Sorry to hear of your delima. Who among us hasn't encountered some type of project that went south - only those who never try anything. Mark it off to education. Cut your losses and move on to the next project.

Good luck!

indybenz · #43 07-12-2012, 12:57 PM

Thanks for the encouragement. Much-o appreciated-o!!!

charmalu · #44 07-12-2012, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Was this bushing Pressed in Dry?

This does look like the bushing was installed dry. It will need a lube to get it into the Sub frame. I used some Syl-Gyide, and it went right in. KY would not get it all the way in. I also made a Bushing installer like WhiskyDan did in his thread, with a slight modification.

By the looks of the rust, the parts thrown at it are worth more than the body.

Charlie

Stretch · #45 07-12-2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indybenz

...
So you think it would be possible to weld in some panels/bracing? I'm not looking for a concourse restoration, just safe/operable transportation.

...

Thanks for explaining how you did the job in a bit more detail - I did get a different impresion from the pictures.

As for welding it up - well yes anything is possible. Look at the work that dropnosky did on his w123 (and is now doing on his W115) - do you need links?

The donor car route would be entirely possible but I think you kind of put yourself back a step as you then need to spend time looking for a really rust free example. I think they are very very hard to find now. There are many "rust free" cars here from Switzerland, France, warm US states and Italy. Now that I've got my eye in I can see that for most of them that is a crock of sh....

If you think it is repairable and you just want something to go - just repair the bits you can. Remove all of the cancer and patch it.

The floor pan that you mention will almost certainly be rotten along the side of the car as well if that corner where the sub frame bracing has gone. So look along that bit too. The rockers / sills are made up of 3 parts - an outer an inner and the floor pan.

On a sedan the replacement floor pan is now updated to a W126 number so I guess good bits from a W126 could be used there too. I'm not 100% sure about this - I'm just going on information from the dealer I got last year when I looked into buying a new one...