I have spent hours reading and I am more confused now.
Few questions...
I have found that the engine needs to be a certain number of degrees BTDS when installing the new IP. The IP I currently have was removed at TDS, and I have just done a valve adjustment on my engine.(1981 300td) looking at the balancer it shows a reading of 10.

SOO..
1) if the engine needs to be at 23 BTDS to install the pump, what should my reading show since it currently says 10, but I know its at TDS on the crankshaft marks?

2) So whats the big deal if its a little off? I have found people that have timed them a bit off on purpose.

3) If I screw this up, do I have to take the IP off again to do it right....I NEVER WANT TO TAKE IT OFF AGAIN..(if I actually get it back on)

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1981 300TD Wagon, my new favorite car I have ever owned, 48 hours after being rescued from under a tree since 09, she's alive!
2001 Suburban...wifes, hauls the 3 kids and drinks gas like its a .99 milkshake at Cook-out
2001 Chevy Mini-van.....mine, which is why I am trying to get the 300TD Wagon on the road...had old Jeeps my whole life, now a mini van and a struggling "man-card"

You have to put the pump on its mark, in the picture below you can see a teeth missing and a mark. They have to line up. In the picture below they are not exactly lined up.



Then put the engine at 24º BTDC in the compression stroke of cylinder 1. Install pump somewhere in the middle of the slots (there are marks on the engine and the pump). Drip time the pump.

I totally understand that, but see question 1-3, for where I am currently confused.

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1981 300TD Wagon, my new favorite car I have ever owned, 48 hours after being rescued from under a tree since 09, she's alive!
2001 Suburban...wifes, hauls the 3 kids and drinks gas like its a .99 milkshake at Cook-out
2001 Chevy Mini-van.....mine, which is why I am trying to get the 300TD Wagon on the road...had old Jeeps my whole life, now a mini van and a struggling "man-card"

...

yes, a NEW or rebuilt IP that is set to the alignment marks needs to be installed at 23°BTDC, but we removed that IP from a perfectly timed engine at TDC on purpose, so if you do not move the timing on the pump, it'll be perfect, or very close when we get it installed.
I explained all this to you in my shop when we removed it!!!
that's why I made it so clear that the cam timing marks had to be dead on perfect! because the IP is already set where it needs to be.

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

I'll try and answer the questions I think you are asking!


When you are standing in front of the engine (scratching your head?) the crankshaft should be turned in a clockwise direction. Do not turn it backwards!

So if your pointer is now pointing at 10 => you now need to work out if that is 10 degrees before top dead centre (BTDC) or after top dead centre (ATDC). Look to the left of the number 10 and see if the numbers increase in value. If they do then you will find that zero degrees has already gone past the pointer...

...so that means you've got 10 degrees ATDC.

If, however, the numbers are getting smaller (as you look left along the scale) then you will see that zero degrees is before the pointer...

...so that means you've got 10 degrees BTDC.

This is all because the crank turns in a clockwise direction as you look at it from the front. You need to "look left" to see what is coming next.

The next thing, however, is to work out which TDC you have! The OM617 is a FOUR stroke diesel engine. The crank turns twice for each whole and complete and SINGULAR revolution of the camshaft.

The TDC you want (to put it in a rather inarticulate way) is "the one before it goes bang" that is the one where the intake valve has closed and the next valve to open is the exhaust valve. On the OM617 the first valve is an intake valve and the second valve over cylinder one is an exhaust valve.

(IP timing is set up in accordance with what is going on with cylinder one - as far as you are concerned the other cylinders are to be ignored => cylinder one is at the front of the engine - the first valve is the valve right at the front - the second valve is the one next to it etc)

A bit off?

Well define that please!

My advice is not to approach this job in a haphazard manner - try and be exact - precise - perfect!

Yes!

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

This IP mess has me frazzled, not doubting you vstech, and I get it, but I got to the forums been doing as much reading as possible and I find all these horror stories, and the sticker on my car says 24 degrees, then I read to forget all that and take the valve cover back off and make sure the correct valve is closed visually regardless of any number, accuracy seems to be critical for sure and I never want to take this thing off EVER again....

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1981 300TD Wagon, my new favorite car I have ever owned, 48 hours after being rescued from under a tree since 09, she's alive!
2001 Suburban...wifes, hauls the 3 kids and drinks gas like its a .99 milkshake at Cook-out
2001 Chevy Mini-van.....mine, which is why I am trying to get the 300TD Wagon on the road...had old Jeeps my whole life, now a mini van and a struggling "man-card"

Thanks ARMY, just trying to wrap my very visual brain around this stuff..long time wrencher, very new to internals and only 2 weeks in as a desire tinkerer.
I appreciate the help, I think I'm getting it straight in my head now...need to stop reading so much...

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1981 300TD Wagon, my new favorite car I have ever owned, 48 hours after being rescued from under a tree since 09, she's alive!
2001 Suburban...wifes, hauls the 3 kids and drinks gas like its a .99 milkshake at Cook-out
2001 Chevy Mini-van.....mine, which is why I am trying to get the 300TD Wagon on the road...had old Jeeps my whole life, now a mini van and a struggling "man-card"

Great explanation Amy it will help me figure out how much timing chain stretch I have on my 85 300 SD.

In theory, that is true. In practice, it's next to impossible to achieve.


Set the crankshaft angle to correspond with the IP timing marks. Otherwise, all frame of reference with respect to the IP is lost if the IP gets moved in the removal/installation process. Then adjust the IP timing by your chosen method.

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When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.