Owner's Manual says 3 qts. of oil consumed per 1000 miles. REALLY? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Shortsguy1 · #1 07-25-2012, 04:36 PM

Hi-
I never had an owner's manual for my 68 220D until today (hooray for ebay. $3 plus $3 shipping). It says "average oil consumption-approximately 2.6-3.4 US qts. per 1,000 miles." Could that really be what MB intended for this car?

I have a Clymer Publications "MB Tuneup and Maintenance, 1958-1976" which supports this by saying "average oil consumption is 1 quart every 300-400 miles." But maybe they just repeated the same error.

That is basically a quart every visit to the fuel station. Can anyone check their owner's manual (for any MB diesel) and let me know if this is perhaps a typo? Seems incredibly high to me. My car leaks from pretty much every orifice and I still don't need to add 1 quart every 300-400 miles.

My main reason for asking is that I am trying to figure out if my engine has ever been rebuilt. I figure low oil consumption is one indicator of a healthy (and perhaps rebuilt) engine.

My car has documented, regular maintenance through 220,000 miles, but since then, it is hard to figure out as the maintenance records are missing.

Govert · #2 07-25-2012, 05:34 PM

The manuals that I have say 0.25 liters per 100 km (that is 4.3 quart per 1000 miles) as an acceptable maximum. It says further that oil consumption depends on how you use the car.

I consider normal around 0.4–0.6 per 1000 miles if the engine is not leaking somewhere. Above 1.7 quart per 1000 miles is abnormal.

Diesel911 · #3 07-25-2012, 06:07 PM

Maybe the Germans expected all of their Mercedes Cars to be on the Autobahn at the Max speed possible.
I know some of our Members have been suprised when that went on long Highway trips as to how much Oil they had to replace.

I might lose close to one Quart every 1,000 miles but I do have some slight leaks and there is that Blow-By. Mostly in Town driving.

bustedbenz · #4 07-25-2012, 09:16 PM

I expect oil in 1968 had a whole lot less anti-combustion additives than it does now. I also expect engines in 1968 probably had a bit looser tolerances than they do now... maybe it wasn't completely unexpected.

jimandsuzy · #5 07-25-2012, 09:51 PM

I think it was MBs plan to deny warranty claims on engines that used to much oil.

t walgamuth · #6 07-25-2012, 10:45 PM

Overhead cams were still a relatively new thing then. Valve seals were not at all what they are now. Oil was not nearly as good as now either so consumption was naturally higher.

And if you drove it flat out on the autobahn I imagine it would have used more.

cho · #7 07-26-2012, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

And if you drove it flat out on the autobahn I imagine it would have used more.

X2!

I have recently went to 2000 miles trip across Europe with OM617

mostly highway, 75 mph average, oil consumption was

0.4 q per 1000 miles

average in city is 0.15 q per 1000 miles ....

in my other car which is also turbo diesel but a lot newer design
situation is totally opposite.

.

cho · #8 07-26-2012, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

Hi-

my 68 220D ...

I figure low oil consumption is one indicator of a healthy (and perhaps rebuilt) engine.

with that age and low oil consumption I would go with rebuilt engine...

what was mileage when you got a car and what the mileage is now?

.

Air&Road · #9 07-26-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

Hi-
I never had an owner's manual for my 68 220D until today (hooray for ebay. $3 plus $3 shipping). It says "average oil consumption-approximately 2.6-3.4 US qts. per 1,000 miles." Could that really be what MB intended for this car?

I have a Clymer Publications "MB Tuneup and Maintenance, 1958-1976" which supports this by saying "average oil consumption is 1 quart every 300-400 miles." But maybe they just repeated the same error.

That is basically a quart every visit to the fuel station. Can anyone check their owner's manual (for any MB diesel) and let me know if this is perhaps a typo? Seems incredibly high to me. My car leaks from pretty much every orifice and I still don't need to add 1 quart every 300-400 miles.

My main reason for asking is that I am trying to figure out if my engine has ever been rebuilt. I figure low oil consumption is one indicator of a healthy (and perhaps rebuilt) engine.

My car has documented, regular maintenance through 220,000 miles, but since then, it is hard to figure out as the maintenance records are missing.

Yes, those cars did use a lot of oil. With a diesel it's not a big deal for a number of reasons. First of all, a diesel engine runs on oil. Whatever makes it into the combustion chamber is burned and pushes you down the road.

Secondly, there are no spark plugs to foul, so as long as the engine starts and you can carry enough oil with you to get where you're going, there's no harm.

As far as whether it has ever been rebuilt, it really doesn't matter. What DOES matter is it's current condition. If it starts well on a cold day and runs good, then you have something you can work with.

With these old engines, diesel specific engine oil is imperative, something like Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo or Shell Rotella T. Drain the oil hot and let it drain overnight so that the last bit of sludge comes out. Change it often, keep it full and it will serve you well.

Hope this helps.

Shortsguy1 · #10 07-26-2012, 11:29 AM

It is hard to imagine my 220d speeding along the autobahn, but I guess it is all relative. It is strange to think back to a time when a top speed of 70-80 mph was sufficient for normal car use, but I assume if our national speed limit was 55, 75 mph probably didn't seem too bad for the first owner. Based on this discussion and a few others, I will conclude that about 1 qt per 1000 mi is reasonable, and much above that indicates that I should probably start investigating if I have a problem.

The reasons I am so focused on figuring out if my car had an engine rebuild are several:
1) It needs a lot of rubber replaced (subframe bushings (front and rear) and engine mounts, tranny mount, etc). Everyone recommends Genuine parts, but they are expensive bits of rubber. As for everyone, $ are short to come by these days, so if I feel the engine has many years of life ahead of it, I will invest in good rubber bits. If the engine is not so healthy, I may just go aftermarket and keep my fingers crossed.

2) I have one small child and a second on the way that will drive with me in this car. I want to be sure it is as safe and reliable as possible.

3) Some here suggest that anything other than a factory rebuild is doing more damage than help. I guess I want to figure out that if the engine was rebuilt, was it done well.

4) I don't know about you guys, but I have some vague memories from the past and it is hard to know what is a real memory and what is a mistaken memory. I absolutely remember going to a grungy repair shop as a kid and seeing this car in bits, but my mom and sister don't remember any of this and don't think it happened. So I guess I need to figure out if this is a real memory or if I mixed things up in my head. We also had a few VWs when I was younger which were also rebuilt, so it is not inconceivable that I got it wrong.

Anyway, once I have done a compression check and adjusted the valves, I will update. Thanks for all your advice and information.

Air&Road · #11 07-26-2012, 11:38 AM

I think that it would be worthwhile to do a compression test. Does it hold good oil pressure? Does it sound healthy? Does it start well?

All this is information that you can evaluate to tell if the engine is healthy. Although these engines are expen$ive to rebuild, they do rebuild well and contrary to popular belief they can be rebuilt much the same as any engine, it's just that the parts are much more expen$ive than your basic Ford or Chevy.

If after a compression test you determine that the engine is strong and healthy, remember that it is an older tech engine, and needs frequent and thorough oil changes.

Best of luck with it.

Shortsguy1 · #12 07-26-2012, 12:20 PM

Larry-
Thanks for the words of encouragement. It does start easily after 20 seconds of glowplug warming. The oil pressure pegs within a second of two of starting. And it only comes off of max (45 psi, these old MBs had different pressure units than the "new"er diesels) at a warmed up idle.

The records I have indicate incredibly frequent maintenance through 220,000 miles by the first owner. My dad bought it then and we are unable to find his records for the vehicle. Knowing who my dad was, I know he would have done his best to maintain the vehicle, but I suspect he didn' t know that there is diesel specific oils. If this forum didn't exist, I am not sure I would know about diesel specific oils. Anyway, the odometer is now broken at 17,000 miles, which is extremely puzzling to me. I know my dad did not drive it enough to have it turn over at 300,000, so I don't know how it got from (2)20,000 to (?)17,000 miles. Maybe if it was rebuilt, they decided to roll the odo back to zero. Or maybe they started to roll it back, got to 17,000 and it broke. Who knows.

It is a good puzzle and I am having fun learning about the car here, working on the car, and driving the car. Win all around.

whunter · #13 07-26-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

Hi-
I never had an owner's manual for my 68 220D until today (hooray for ebay. $3 plus $3 shipping). It says "average oil consumption-approximately 2.6-3.4 US qts. per 1,000 miles." Could that really be what MB intended for this car?

I have a Clymer Publications "MB Tuneup and Maintenance, 1958-1976" which supports this by saying "average oil consumption is 1 quart every 300-400 miles." But maybe they just repeated the same error.

That is basically a quart every visit to the fuel station. Can anyone check their owner's manual (for any MB diesel) and let me know if this is perhaps a typo? Seems incredibly high to me. My car leaks from pretty much every orifice and I still don't need to add 1 quart every 300-400 miles.

My main reason for asking is that I am trying to figure out if my engine has ever been rebuilt. I figure low oil consumption is one indicator of a healthy (and perhaps rebuilt) engine.

My car has documented, regular maintenance through 220,000 miles, but since then, it is hard to figure out as the maintenance records are missing.

That specification is for determining when engine rebuild is mandatory.
It is not average oil consumption for the engine...

From experience - memory, using the old oils:
* A perfect factory NEW OM615 engine could easily use 1.0 US quart (or slightly more) every 3k miles for up to 20k miles.
* After break in, it may only use 0.1 US quart every 3k miles.
There was a larger possible variation of oil consumption on the OM615 when compared to the OM617 and newer engines, primarily due to production method, engineering, design, materials/metallurgy, and standards of the time.

IMO:
Most good mechanics familiar with the 1968 220D will seal up all of the external leaks, and suggest waiting until it uses at least one US quart every thousand miles to discuss rebuild.

.

vstech · #14 07-26-2012, 02:25 PM

... my "new' 87td is DRINKING oil... zero leaks on the ground, but wow it sure drops the dipstick... I'm thinking there was a serious reason they changed the head on her...

gozapper · #15 07-27-2012, 10:55 AM

Used to be a saying that it was best not to fill the oil all the way. Leave about a quart low . The top quart always seemed to go quickest.

Tom