Slow acceleration
 

i have a 1983 300d turbo and when i hit the throttle it takes a little bit to get up to rpms. its just like a slow resonse. i know it should go up quicker cause on all of out tractors (mainly all deutzs) when you hit the throttle...BAM! it's there. and also if i try to do a burn out with it, it takes about 15 second the wheels break loose

Same deal with my '83 300SD. I'm still trouble shooting what the cause is. I just installed new Monark nozzles and no change. I run regular pump Diesel with some DieselKleen cetane boost every fill up. I average less than 20MPG with mixed driving.

Last night, I disconnected the ALDA and plugged the boost line to test the ALDA. Not much change in performance. Starting off is the same and I have a bit less power when up to speed than with the ALDA plugged in. ALDA screw has been adjusted about 1/4 turn out. No change in performance.

Make sure your throttle linkage is nice and tight. A lot of times they will get loose with age, also you can adjust the Alda to give more gas until boost kicks in. It's all air and fuel delivery, check filters etc.

Well, surely "you know" it should get up quicker...............

But, do you "know" that you have a turbocharger...........and do you "know" that the turbo must spool to over 100K to develop boost...........and do you "know" that such acceleration of the turbo cannot occur instantaneously?

I'll tell you what I know:

A large V8 powered sedan is in your future so you can get to the next red light faster than all the other DB's on the road. Gas is free............right?

All I "know" is that the above post was rather unhelpfull.

Try cleaning the banjo bolts and hard line fronm the ALDA to the intake manifold. They get clogged with carbon and cause low power. Also make sure none of your brakes are dragging, all your filters are clean, your valves are adjusted, and your throttle linkages are lubed and properly adjusted.

yea my linkage is all good and tight valves were rechecked last week banjo bolts were cleaned a couple months ago and i know what turbo lag is!

I tell y'all something I "know" as well. My F250 with the 7.3 IDI will jump off the line faster than some newer trucks. Whatever I have in the front of the truck quickly finds its way into the back seat. Granted the engine is over 2x the displacement as the OM617 but the truck also weighs 2x or more than the W126 chassis. My turbo lag is not bad, either. The Banks always feels like it is right there as soon as you touch the accelerator. Now, I can floor the 300SD and it just lethargically gets up to speed; from my observations of other OM617s, that is not normal.

I'm not looking to make 500HP out of this engine but I would like not to have to plan my turns to compensate for the 5 or so seconds I may or may not get some little bit of power to the wheels. I'm sure Benz Kid feels the same way.

It's an age thing. Once you have to start dealing with 'turbo lag' on bodily appendages, real turbo lag seems insignificant by comparison.

It doesn't "seem" insignificant.

It "is" insignificant.

Such individuals should drive an n/a diesel vehicle for a month. Then they might appreciate what they have.

Or, they should simply buy a 300hp gasser and beat the next DB to the red light.:rolleyes:

hey, a 606.912 isn't that slow! ;)

...........now there is a turbo that takes forever to spool............;)

You're not going to break the tires on dry pavement.

What do you mean it takes 15 seconds for the wheels to break loose? You chirp the tires going into third? I don't think even a 560SEL can manage that.

Sixto
87 300D^2

I think he's talking about a brake stand. If you hold the brake and put the accelerator to the floor, the rear wheels will break loose and spin. I can do it on my car with the A/C off but the wheels don't break loose until about 15 seconds.

[QUOTE=Biodiesel300TD;2984828]All I "know" is that the above post was rather unhelpfull.

Yes. It was unhelpful.

Problem Solved
 

Buy a 240D, no Turbo lag, instant power to the rear wheels when the clutch is released. :D Problem solved.

The intertaining part is, the DB that was behind me trying to launch his V8 Rocket into my trunk, is now ahead of me at the next red light. I roll in behind him as the light turns green, and off they go again, and I just keep rolling along w/o stopping. :P

These old Diesels are not fast off the line, but are long lived and dependable.

X2 on cleaning out your boost line from the intake manifold to the switch over valve and on to the ALDA. there could be a problem with the S/O valve, and it is leaking the boost.

Charlie

Considering the 15 second burnout time, I'd check the transmission too. How much smoke before the turbo threshold?

After standing on both pedals for 15 seconds the wheels break free? I don't get it. Regardless, I hope you change ATF on the severe use schedule.

Sixto
87 300D^2

Do yourself a favour
 

Ask routine maintenance and service question on this list. But don't expect folks to give you advice on how to wring Tdi-league performance from your car.

Take your quest for sub-15 second burnouts here: superturbodiesel.com - tuning performance turbo diesel mercedes, W123, W116 and up. OM617, OM60X

Seriously, this list isn't performance-oriented and most of the membership doesn't mess with their rides too much. It's a great source for solid info.

But the guys at the other list are probably speaking language you want to hear....:D

Now... that being said... try moving the throttle linkage at your injection pump by hand to see how far it travels to the stop. Then have someone sit in the car and push down on the go pedal and see if it has the same travel. There have been cases of people buying these cars and then finding that the previous owners drove them for years with the linkage way out of adjustment or with something binding somewhere.

What Zacharias said - this forum is about getting cars tuned properly above all else. Anyone is welcome to wring every last bit of performance from their cars but you need a solid baseline. We run into differences of opinion when the discussion flows like this:

OP = My car is too slow
board = What's the maintenance history?
OP = I heard these cars can do 0-60 in x seconds, but mine feels more like x+10 seconds
board = Have you checked that A, B and C are within spec?
OP = How big a turbo can I put on this engine?
board = [collective sigh]

There's a Diesel performance forum on this site as well.

Sixto
87 300D^2

Exactly...I hate being an ass on here, especially given how helpful the forum generally is but an answer is only going to be as good as the question asked. We can help getting the car back to its spec times and performance, and even beyond that. However this isn't going to be a 9 second 1/4 car. Its fun to get your hands dirty and work on it but performance is hard to wring from these engines (unlike PSDs and Cummins etc which just take a chip to add a couple hundred torque).

Also the MOST important part of modding anything is to make sure your car performs well to spec first. That's pretty much a modding golden rule...trust me, I've been there and done that too when I was a bit younger. Otherwise it is pointless to mod in most cases, or you can go as you replace maintenance parts depending on what they are. I'm talking about fuel filters, trans health (esp in your case), proper valve adjustment, and an eagle eye on the timing chain stretch and tensioner. Beyond that, good injectors, good turbo health, good cooling system including water pump and rad flow, and a clean system.

ROTLMAO. Too true.

Yeah, I ought to have included some other questions, before I mentioned checking the linkage travel:

- how long have you had the car... it sounds like you just got it... what was the previous history? Has it sat for an extended period of time?
- fuel filters (2) and air filter replaced?
- how is it idling and running? Any miss or excessive shake at idle?
- on the road does it feel like you have progressive turbo response or does it suddenly kick in at some point... or is it a slug overall?

These are old cars. There are myriad factors that can come into play.

You should make sure the basics are working as they should before you hit the performance forums. They won't waste time with your questions if they find out you haven't done the basics.

You need to give us a better rundown of the vehicle, to begin with.

you guys won't believe it. i adjusted the ALDA adjustment screw a 1/4 turn ccw and no difference but when i went a 1/2, OH Boy ol boy you watch out cause this benz will out run a fast turtle. No but seriously the response is a lot better. And i put on a psi gauge for a boost gauge and i'm gettin right at 9 psi at wot

I believe it.

I think the OP and I have a similar symptoms, so I feel it helpful to add my scenario here as well. I'm not trying to hijack but I see no point in opening another thread for the same issue. No, I'm not trying to hop this car up to be some smoking street racer or anything, I just want stock power or slightly better.

Firstly, the car tends to have its moments. Sometimes it surprises me and drives well and other times it doesn't want to get out of its own way.

I have had the car since last January. It was not driven much and sat for a few years. Maintenance was most likely not kept up in the last 10 years.

Filters replaced when the car was purchased. Tank screen inspected and clean.

Idles rough; Shakes car. Shake goes away around 1200RPM. Slight haze from exhaust at idle. No smoke visible in mirrors during normal driving. Will smoke at or near the governor limit (should be normal for an IDI). Valves adjusted about 2 or so months ago; no noticeable change.

Turbo seems to kick in at 1500RPM or above. Alda line cleaned a few months ago. Alda adjusted 1/4 turn CCW. New Monark injector nozzles pop tested and matched.

My theory is this is caused by an intermittent ALDA or possibly a leak in the ALDA.

alda
 

.
Eaton999,

the things you descibe is exactly the sympthoms I have
I was suspecting rack bolt,. changed it to new golden one
but things remain the same....

let us know did the "Alda theory" resolve your issues please :)


cheers
ChO

.

1500 RPM for Turbo kick-in sounds about right to me. Gotta keep those RPM around 2K between gear changes for smooth power transfer.

YMMV

I don't understand how an ALDA issue can be causing a rough idle. Roughly speaking (there is a better definition), the ALDA is a fuel compensation device related to running under load -- on the turbocharged diesels, it adjusts fuel pressure in response to boost pressure (on NA engines it adjusts fuel to compensate for altitude). It has no bearing on how the car idles.

I was taught that when the ALDA is correctly adjusted when you can just see smoke out the tailpipe on hard acceleration (not WOT) in the daytime.

If the car is shaking at idle (rocking) and you have done the injectors, you need to look at installing the updated rack damper bolt. You could also try adjusting the bolt you have now, first.

Just to clarify... you did try adjusting the new gold bolt and/or adjusting the idle setting? Simply installing the new bolt alone isn't sufficient. Also, you ARE aware that the adjustments are supposed to be made with the motor HOT? I was taught it should ideally be done after 20 minutes of hard driving.

As these cars age there is no universal golden rule on how the idle and rack damper bolt should be set up. Individual cars can be quite different.

You sometimes have to experiment with adjusting both the idle speed and the bolt, to achieve the smoothest idle. (In other words, if you can't get a smooth idle at the current idle speed, then try adjusting the idle speed a bit up or down then play with the bolt again.)

On some cars it can be a maddening process. For example, I owned one SD that felt like it took forever to set up. I eventually found that it was only "happy" idling just under 700 rpms, which I dislike as too low, but I could never get it to smooth out (even with the new bolt) at a higher setting.

If adjustments don't improve matters, perhaps a compression test is in order?

I know the ALDA has nothing to do with rough idle. I tried a small adjustment of it to help with off-the-line acceleration. My acceleration performance is intermittent but usually on the side of poor.

I have not touched my rack dampener bolt yet. It is on the list of things to investigate. I'm not sure if I need a new bolt or if I can adjust what I have. I really need to do more research on that subject first.

I bought a compression tester but with it being over 100F outside lately, I have been putting off pulling the injectors and testing a hot engine. Not fun to do at 100+F OAT.

New rack dampener bolt ordered. I'll try adjusting mine but it sounds like it is common for the spring inside to wear out. I'll let y'all know what happens.

I tried adjusting my rack dampener bolt but it was turned in just about all the way. I adjusted it out a little to see if there was a difference but it didn't help. I adjusted it back all the way in. I also turned the ALDA out another 1/4 to make about 1/2 turn CCW total. I did notice a bit of a performance increase. I will report the smoke opacity if I see any on the way to work tomorrow morning. It's hard to tell at dusk. I'm hoping once I install the new rack dampener, the idle will calm down. It's not horrible but I can feel some shaking in the steering wheel and around the car. I have seen much worse. I want perfection, though.

I may adjust the ALDA a little more and judge the exhaust temps by the smoke opacity and engine temp. I definitely don't want to risk burning holes in pistons or valves! Yes, cylinder temps do affect coolant temps.

I do seem to get quicker turbo response and when it does spool up, I feel a little more pull than before. I am very close to being satisfied, performance wise.

Still waiting for that rack dampener bolt to come in. *taps fingers on desk*

hot baby hot
 

yes,it was properly done,hot...

compression is 25.5 bar across all 5 (0.5 diff between)

700 is also mine sweetest idle ...

but let's not hijack post :D:D

.

if you do not press that pedal too heavy you should not notice any
change in smoke appearance ... so many guys drive without ALDA at all
most of them are pleased,a very few with heavy leg are taken ALDA back..

.

I would probably enjoy the extra power so much that people would think the car is on fire. Currently, in gear I don't get any smoke even if I floor it from a stop. It doesn't really jump up and take off, either. If the car is in park and I goose the throttle, I do see a puff of black smoke. It could be happening in gear and I'm not seeing it but I did put the car in drive and goose it and I didn't see any smoke. I'm at 1/2 turn up right now.

Perfection doesn't exist, IMO.

My SD has the ALDA disengaged, no problems.

the ALDA would not get you there...

anyways,if you max your ALDA all the way,and while "pedal to the metal"
no smoke,...reconsider malfunctioning ALDA or proudly expose us to the
very first SD that burned all fuel that way :D

Maybe I'll turn it up another half turn and if I don't see a noticeable difference, then maybe the ALDA is shot and is asking me to take it off the car.

Rack Dampener bolt came in today. Now I have something to do tonight after my evening scotch.

scotch and hot engine? mmmmm :rolleyes:

btw best way to establish ALDA malfunctioning is to plug a line from
manifold and do some test stress short ride..if things are the same
(meaning you have all time fully restricted fuel)
THEN you have broken ALDA ;)

happy scotch-ing mate

.

You should see a significant puff of smoke if you floor it and engage the kickdown switch when driving.

If you aren't, then if you haven't done so already, you need to check the line that runs from the banjo bolt at the rear of the exhaust manifold, across the firewall and terminates at the ALDA, to ensure it isn't broken/torn. If the line is intact, then remove the banjo bolt and clean it... if it is clogged, or the line is compromised, the ALDA is never hearing about the need for more fuel.

Gently gently when reinstalling the banjo bolt it is very easy to strip the threads.

You could also experiment with unplugging the overboost protection switch. Frankly I don't think it does much to begin with.

I have already tried all of those suggestions. The line has been cleaned and still is as of the other day. Boost switch bypassed.

When I unplugged the ALDA, I plugged the boost line so as not to have a boost leak. On the test drive, I didn't notice much difference in off the line power but the top end performance was less than usual.

Scotch works well with a hot engine. At least when I burn my hand 10-12 times on the oil canister it won't hurt as much.

Ah. Ok well then it's time for that additional half turn on the ALDA.

When you first adjusted the ALDA, was the tamperproof seal still in place or had someone had it off already?

Do you get to have more Scotches, the more often you burn yourself? :D

I can safely conclude,..we have yet another proud member with new signature:

EGR,ALDA deleted :D:D

.

I didn't notice any tamper proof seal on the ALDA. It is just a bolt threaded onto a screw. If there was some kind of paint markings, they are long gone. The screw is pretty stiff to turn, though.

I like your idea about the scotch metering. I have a feeling I would pass out before I could finish the job, though.

My EGR stuff has been removed from the valve cover. I am waiting to receive an EGR delete kit so I can remove the silly little tubes and the rest of the junk over there. It beats me if the EGR is stuck open or closed. I imagine it is closed.

Well, I'm gonna go out and break some stuff on my car. I'll let y'all know what happens.

Ah. We can safely assume your ALDA is not a virgin then. They come from the factory with a plastic cap/seal over the screw, not something that pops off and gets lost, as the Gods of Bosch aren't keen on owner servicing of their lovely pump. On my old SD it was black, others say theirs was silver/grey.

This does not necessarily mean anything. Only one out of the four turbodiesels I have owned had the cap still in place when I got it.

Try IP and Valve Adjustment
 

I've had my 300sd for 4 years. biggest difference in power i found was valve adjustment (Mercedes Diesel Valve Adjustment Procedure) and IP timing (Injection Pump Timing Adjustment for Mercedes 617 Engines - Topic)

... another bump for an old post... why? it's like you are looking for low power threads, and injecting your opinion on the solution... to threads that are years, nearly a decade old on one case...
I"m thrilled you found power from a valve adjustment, and IP timing set, but MOST turbocharged motors lose power when the fuel enrichment device (ALDA) does not receive the boost signal to add fuel...

............one post out of hundreds that don't belong on a specific thread or have been posted without any investigation or forethought.

Why pick on this one?