Axle Shaft\ C.V. Joint Questions?
 

Hi Folks,
I started getting a wierd noise from the driver's side rear. It is louder with the power applied & quiets down when coasting -there is little or no vibration. I've narrowed it down to the outer c.v. joint on the driver's side. (i think?) I'm looking for some thoughts& help........

With the 240d on the hoist, the left side axle shaft can be moved 1/2 to 1 inch in & out (towards the wheel & then towards the diff) All the "in & out" play is in area where the axle shaft meets the outer c.v. joint - no indication of leakage or ripped boots. Also noise appears to be coming from this area. If I move the axle shaft in & out & then drive the car, the noise disappears for a while.

My questions are:

1. Is it the outer cv joint?
2. Can I buy just a cv joint?
3. If I need to buy another axle shaft, what are my options? Any recommended sources?
4. How long should I drive my car with this problem? I use it right now for short local trips?

Thanks

Aivars

Axle shafts
 

Hi Aivars,you didn't mention what model you have.I have replaced both of my halfshafts,it's a fairly simple job.The noise that I had was a clicking noise at low speed,more pronounced in reverse.The shafts,as far as I know,are not rebuildable.Look for used ones,I paid $125Cdn each for mine.Maybe someone with more experience can jump in...

Hi Kyle,
My car is a 82 240d. I thought about looking for a used axle shaft. Although Parts America sells rebuilt ones for $120 US (this includes core price) - but I'm unsure of the quality??

I've read up on the R&R axle shaft posts, and it does seem simple. I just want to make sure I've reached the right conclusion & also try to get input on where to get my parts.

Aivars

Did you check the tightness of the bolt?

This bolt is on the end of the shaft at the wheel, you can see it if you take off the wheel, or the little "hub" cap.

Hi Ed,
I checked the bolt and it was tight.
Then I loosen the bolt to see if the splined end of the axle shaft was moving when I moved the shaft. But even with bolt out the splined end didn't move.

It looks like the "play" is located the on the outside cv joint. Where the axle shaft meets the cv joint. I'm not sure if this movement is normal?
Aivars

Yes, that movement would be normal because as the suspension (wheel) moves up and down, the "pumpkin" doesn't because it is fixed to the car. So the shaft changes length.

Could be a wheel bearing as a CV joint usually clicks instead of rumbles.

Hi Ed,

I didn't realize that movement was normal. Although there is a noisy clunk from the cv joint when I move the axle "in & out". I know the noise is coming from the driver's rear. When I spin the wheel you can hear it - I'm just not sure where it is coming from the joint or the bearing.

I thought since the sound went away (twice) after I jacked up the car - indicated that by varying the angle of the cv joint by jacking up the car & the sound going away indicated a problem with the joint.

After I jacked the car up & the noise went away I took the car for a high speed run on a couple of really bumpy roads to try to get the noise to start to start - but to no avail. Even doing circles in the local church parking lot (hoping for some devine intervention) didn't induce any noise.

Stumped in PEI! :confused:

Aivars

I haven't been on the forum this weekend much, but after reading your thread, I would bet on the CV joint rather than the bearing. Bearings usually roar, while CV joints can do many different things depending on failure modes. Bearings usually make a constant and relentless noise until failure, little can be done to eliminate the noise.

The real tip-off is moving the joint temporarily eliminates the noise. By moving the joint latterly you may be squeezing a little lubricant into the wear areas or causing it to run in a less worn position. This never lasts long and the problem returns.

The axle shafts are throw aways, it takes special tools to rebuild them. You can get replacements (most are rebuilt) from Advance Auto. Most other parts sources have them also. Used is a possibility, but is risky. I just changed one of mine - paid $150 from Advance Auto (82 240D). Mine lost a boot and began making a clicking noise. I repacked it with grease and put on a split boot. The noise stopped and it ran for another 50,000 miles, before the boot failed again.

Since the failure mode is usually loss of lubricant, you could take a stab at injecting some grease into the joints, if the boots are still good. You'd have to remove the boot clamps and slide the rubber back, so that it could be packed with grease. This is risky, because a 20 year old rubber boot is apt to be fragile. The lubricant they use is a heavy oil, but I have found grease works just fine. You may have to find some replacement clamps, if you can't save the old ones. It might work, if you are looking to save money.

Good luck.

Haven't personally been into MB joints, but have done several on smaller cars. Usually you can take them apart, clean them up, and inspect the balls and ball tracks to tell if they're really worn to the point of needing replacement. They look mysterious to the novice, but are not really that difficult. Any good repair book can step you through the process.

As far as replacements, definitely rebuilt! I suspect that the increase in the front wheel drive auto population of the last decade has spawned a HUGE c/v joint rebuild industry. I think they just re-grind the races and put in oversized balls. (I have a mental image of this minimum-wage person sorting through a 20-foot high pile of used axles, throwing them in bins: GKN, NTN, etc...) Point is, price is relatively low and quality high, because this is a well-established industry.

My two cents on rebuilts vs. new. I had vibration problems and decided to purchase rebuilt shafts......six months later I began to hear the famous clicking and never did completely remove the original vibration. Ended up trading the rebuilts in for new ones.

Probably just a bad experience but over the years I've learned the hard way that savings can be defined differently. I don't think I've ever spent more for a higher quality item and regretted it later....on the other hand, I have often tried to save by buying down and then wished otherwise later.

I'm going to keep my car for a long time and am busy making sure that each upgrade lasts as long as possible.

Nic
'85 300CD

Same sound, same problem with the only exception being I replaced both my axels (had them rebuilt) about 9 months ago. I will follow this post to see if you end up replacing your shafts and cure the problem. After giving up and taking my car to the shop last week where nothing was found wrong the noise has not come back.

I'm going to say that it's a bearing problem. When bearings go bad it's not always a constant sound. The sound from bad bearings depends on how the load is applied to them. For example, a bad bearing unit could make noise only when turning in one direction, or only when braking; when a particularly heavy load is on them. Ok, I'm not saying that it's definitely bad bearings, but this is my experience from bad bearings in my Volvo, 300D and Landcruiser. Oh, and when a CV joint went bad in my Volvo 850, it made a clicking sound.

Alex

Just an update on my cv/axle noise. It has disappeared!!...... at least for now. I still suspect that it is the outer driver's side cv joint.

My plan of attack is to try to lube it up and see how long it will be "noiseless". Any suggestions on lubricants. I plan to loosen the axle shaft side of the boot - but can't really grease up the joint. How about some gear oil poured in instead?

Keep the help& advice coming - that's why I like this board so much!!

Aivars

Again...intermitten noise is very indicative of CV joints early failure. I have spent several years as a rotating equipment specialist working for BP in chemical plants. I have analyzed and witnessed tear downs of hundreds of ball and tapered roller bearings. I've never ever seen a bad bearing in failure mode quiet down without intervention (a squirt of grease or tightening of float)... they always gets progressively worse. They also are generally independent of the throttle. About the only thing that will change the noise is reversal of direction, or change load (cornering or adding weight to the vehicle). A wheel bearing's purpose is to provide radial and axial support to rolling shafts.

CV joints on the other hand are very throttle sensitive, because they transmit the power to the rear wheels. They are very big (relative to bearings) and have less constraint than bearings (inches of end play as opposed to a few thousandths), which allows them to find different running areas. In certain positions they can make noise and in others they run fine. Most noisey joints are being starved for lubrication, and moving them laterally tends to temporarily redistribute lubricant to needed areas. At very advanced stages of failing the noise will become more consistent. That is why I suggested getting some lubricant into them could solve your porblem. I also suspect that even though you don't see failure of the boots, you may very well have lost a substantial portion of the lubricant - possibly through a loose clamp or even a small crack. The oil that is used is much like gear oil, which you may be able re-inject somehow??? (a big scringe??). I suggested grease as replacement, because it is easier to contain than a liquid.

Good luck.

Aivars - You might have trouble. I have had this problem with my Alfa, but thankfully not the MB...yet.
CV Joint repairs for the Alfa GTV were a wee bit over $500 Cdn.
Ouch! I have been told that this same repair on my 300 would be as expensive. Thankfully, there are a lot of these cars in the wreckers around here, and it doesn't seem to be too difficult a job. (But they never do, do they, at least until you get into it, or you find that you don't have all the right tools...or it starts to rain for a solid two weeks...or...).
If the CV joint is going, you can't do it any more harm. It has got to be replaced anyway. I'd just make sure my CAA card was paid up in the event it let go suddenly & needed a tow.

My trick for greasing cv joints: I use a small (1.25 in dia, 7 in long) one hand grease gun. I fill it with wheel bearing grease (like MBs stuff in a tube). I have a fitting for the grease gun that is basically a large bore needle with a grease fitting on the end. With the big end of the boot pulled back, I ease the needle between the balls and races so as to inject grease into the deepest part of the joint. Pump away! You can put in a fair amount of grease and with luck it will push out some of the old grease. Carefull wipe off the old grease. Wipe the old grease out of the boot. Coat the visible part of the balls races with fresh grease. Add a small quantity to the boot. Reinstall boot and use new clamp with proper tool if possible. Just be gentle on the old boot.

Just an update about on my c.v. joint saga................................

After pulling back the big end of the boot of my suspect cv joint, I found that there was no grease in the cv joint. It was damp & smelled like gear oil - but no sign of any real lubricant. I guess it was origionally filled with gear oil?

I repacked it with cv joint grease using the method suggested by BobK & put everything back together.

So far, the noise has disappeared, at least for now ;) I plan to grease up the remaining joints probably this weekend using this same method. Hopefully it will extend the life of my cv joints at least for a while.

Thanks for all the help!!

Aivars

Be prepared for an oil bath when you take the bottom boots loose. I learned the hard way - dumped a boot load on the driveway.

Glad to hear you had some success. You probably have a small leak somewhere; the thicker grease will probably stay there until the boot fails completely.

I have been getting the "clicking" sound for almost two years. 90% of the time my car clicks while backing up slowly. Sometimes(like after a long drive of several hundred miles) it will click while creeping foward from a stop. I never hear any clicking while driving any faster than 3mph. All is talk is making me worried. I would like to fix it. Is my sound the same as that of a cv joint going into failure mode? Or how about the bearings? any suggestions? thanks, andy

andy - If I were a betting man and if your mileage is way up there then I would say that the rear axle shafts are probably on their last 50k miles. I have never driven a clicking axle shaft till failure and had a friend that had a mid-80's Camry that finally replaced his clicking CV joints at around 285k miles. The worst thing that I think could happen is they could leave you stranded in the middle of traffic or on the side of the road. You may want to budget for it over the next six months or so.

Jim, Thanks for your response. I guess I'll have to set aside money I don't have for new axles. So, if I get good ones like the GKN units for about $600+/-, What do you think would be a good price for an independant MB shop to charge to put them in? Any thing else that should be changed at the same time? I don't want to get stranded. thanks, andy

Hi Andy,I drove a shaft to failure where the ball bearings actually came through the metal casing,by taking it easy I managed to drive it 30 miles home.I didn't know about the free roadside assistance at the time but I did have my AAA card handy.:D

FreeRoadsideService??? You mean, that if my old 123 tank shudders to a stop one dark rainy night and won't restart, that MercedesBenz has a free roadside service, just because we drive behind the three-pointed star (er...Did - some #%$@&*punk ripped my hood ornament off last week. I got a used one at a boneyard on Mitchell Island. Still wasn't cheap)
Free - now thats a deal I want to look into. What can you tell me? Are there geographical restrictions? What happens if my car dies out on the way to Harrison HotSprings or somewhere out in The Kootneys?

Who do you call for this roadside service? The roadside service seems to offer protection against being stranded due to making a bonehead mistake. However, if a Sasquatch stomps my car, I'm on my own.

Ducati, You are in luck, I offer insurance for any mishap involving a Sasquatch, stomping, running into it, tears a door off getting to your picnic basket and beer cooler..... Even if it happens in the "Kootneys" which I assume is Canadaspeak for "boondocks".... The insurance papers and the movie rights agreement papers will arrive by Tuesday of next week....Please tell any of your neighbors that are also in danger from Sasquatch related incidents about my low cost service....Greg

Whooops, I have just been informed that Sasquatch are all teetotalers ( non alcohol imbibers ). I was not aware of that fact and in no way meant that as an ethic slur to their natural outdoor religion, their natural , if smelly, appearance, or an insinuation that the disappearance of local pets which seems to coincide with their family get togethers, is due to their eating habits.... their spokesperson ( spokesquatch ? ) has threatened legal and media action and I am just glad these people do not live here in Texas.... I will keep you up on the situation... but if you fail to hear from me I hope someone will inquire concerning my fate... Thank you, Greg

Like I said I am following this thread since I have the exact same problem. After my mechanic looked at everything 2 weeks ago and found nothing and the noise was gone it has now come back. On the way home last night from Orlando it went from a mild thump to a vibration and loud growl at speed to the thunk thunk thunk at 3-5 mph. Also noticed a lot of grease/oil around the boot and on the bottom of the car right above the inner boot. I can't find any tears or holes in the boot but it's to heavy to have come from the engine. Since this is a fairly new (less than a year) axel shaft it is under warranty so I will try and have it replaced tomorrow.

Well, I can't get anything right. My Abject Apologies to the relatives of Sasquatch who live in Texas..How was I supposed to know you were down here... you just look like Willy Nelson fans...If I have said anything to offend anyone in THIS post I apologize in advance.... Greg

It sounds like Rebootit's car also has Sasquatch problems.
Oh, and Greg - The Kooteneys are actually a place. They are a mountain range out in The Boondocks...:D

Down here we have the cousin to Sasquatch. It's called the Skunk Ape and is attracted to lima beans. (I'm not making this up) :D

Took the mechanic for a ride a little bit ago. He rode in the trunk:D (needs to be a factory option)
He could hear clicking that you can't hear from the drivers seat at all times. Will be replacing the rt. side axel tomorrow.

That was too easy, see if you can get him to ride under the hood....

He is a small guy, might ask him if he would ride there and catch the oil drips for me. Would keep the driveway cleaner

"Skunk Ape" - I live with one of them critters. And he smokes cigars.

Axle shaft replacement is fun. Just keep track of that little pin that keeps the whole thing together. Helps if you have smaller hands (unlike me).

Just keep track of that little pin that keeps the whole thing together
 

?Que? What little pin?

There is a circlip which you shouldn't loose, but a pin?

Also, keep track of the washers which go on the end of the shaft into the hub. I left one in the hub, then put one on the shaft (now there would be two, instead of one), so when I tried to put the circlip on (inside the pumpkin), it wouldn't fit!!
Stupido!

pin, clip, same difference :D


I ment the little C-clip that's a pain in the butt to get back on the axle shaft once it's off.

Ah, yes. I agree. You can imagine my pain when I tried to get that sucker in there with two washers on the end of the shaft...Jeepers!

god that hurt, I had to contort my self in all sorts of weird positions, and once I kinda got it on it would pop off and fly out past the bumper (dunno how). after the n-tenth time I tryed I just kept my finger on the bugger until it popped on, even though the gear was in a spot that made that very painful and very hard.

got my car back late yesterday. Rt. side axel was replaced. The knuckle joint was so bad it was pretty obvious what was wrong after it was off the car. The bad thing was it had put push-pull stress on the rear wheel and the bearing was showing signs of failure. So while it was in the shop I had both rear bearings replaced. I watched them do one side and this is not something I have the tools to do. Didn't look hard, just takes special tools. I see no mention in the service records of this ever being done so I guess the rears are good for 200k +. No more noise!