They say ones mans junk is another mans ,well you know.After revisiting the idea of toying around with another bug I just realized what a stupid mistake this would be after searching some on CL.It seems most have problems with rust ,if not rust its priced into the $4500 range or more,to those people that love VW bugs ,Im sorry ,its just to hard to hold onto cash without handing it over so easliy for a shiney death trap.Im here to say Ill never be drawn in again ,old MB diesels til the day I die.

Have you priced out a fully restored 60's VW bus/van lately? And to think your legs are one of your first lines of defense in a head on collision.

__________________
Jim

Having owned a '69 VW beetle and driven my parents' '71 VW van in high school, I would not recommend either one to anybody.

Besides the safety factors there are other minuses:

*NO AIR CONDITIONING!

*insufficient heat and defrosting in northern climates

*so little power that it becomes a safety factor, especially around here where we have 70,75 and soon to be 85 MPH speed limits (I'm going to have to put a gasser rear-end in the 300SD to keep up).

*If you drive an old VW van, the cops think you have drugs. If you drive an old beetle, many people stereotype you.

On the positive side, the beetle is probably easiest car to maintain other than a model T Ford.

__________________
1983 300SD "Guderian"
1987 MR2
2015 Camry
2015 Chevy Spark
2006 Hyundai Tucson

I'll take a shiny deathtrap over a rusty one!
Working on VW's is different than working on a Benz. The VW was made for easy upkeep with minimal tools, and the Benz was a higher quality build. I wrench on both, and have delegated more Benz work to my local guy than the VW, because some of it has been such a PITA given the tighter tolerances.
Major problem with old VW's is the ability of PO's to come up with creative ways to resolve issues from lack of cash- do old Benzes suffer the same problems? (Lets leave all alternate fuel diesel/vegi oil conversions off the table)
I kinda liked my last ruptured brake line replacement on the 190- the replacement line is one I bought for the '59 bug years ago and fits perfectly.
If I was going to sink serious cash into a project though, it would be a Benz over a VW

__________________
95 E300D working out the kinks
77 300D, 227k, station car
83 300CD 370k, gone away
89 190E 2.6- 335k, no more
79 VW FI Bus- 145k miles, summer driver
59 VW Beetle ragtop- 175k miles
12 VW Jetta- 160k miles

With the Bug, no matter how evolved the later ones were, you are dealing with a basic concept and initial design that was done in the 1930s.

For what it was intended, and what it accomplished, it was near brilliant.

You just cannot beat the value for dollar in a decent old diesel Mercedes. Even if you compare the operating costs to a newer VW diesel, I believe you are out ahead on everything except perhaps fuel cost.

A worthwhile old-tech or very early TDi diesel Golf or Jetta will run you just as much or more to buy than a 300d or 300sd these days.

__________________


Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

I'd say a watercooled VW... Mk2 is my favorite, will do better overall $ wise than an old MB, plus it will get better fuel economy. The Mk2 is no MB, but it's better than an aircooled in a crash. They can be very cheap to run, and most upkeep parts don't cost that much. I've had 3, and loved each one. Don't shy away from the 1.8 gas engine... they have great power and if you drive lightly can return 30 on the highway on regular gas. They're also tough as nails, as long as you keep coolant and oil in them.

-J

__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.

I can vouch for the mk2 golf - it was tough as bricks and reliable like a hammer. I started with a 1.6 NA diesel - short geared 5 spd - topped out at 80 mph I think.

I got hold of a GTD engine and gasser GTi transmission for little money and stuck that in there over a weekend. returned about above 40 mpg (european) driving it anyway whether a maniac or a grandfather. Still miss that car. It was the diesel infection for me.

__________________
2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

my wife actually commented on the prices of regular MB parts for the W124 and how they are lower compared to a similar vintage camry.

e.g. ball joints MB $18/- Toyota $45/-, brakes were nearly twice too. And to top the cake I had a V6 and it needed its plugs changed which called for dismounting the intake manifold.. I hated that job. I also needed to drop the pan and burn out the pickup screen as it had sludged up. Easier said than done.

__________________
2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

interesting thread- I have an 84 300d daily driver but really enjoy buzzing around town in my wife's 68 vert bug- fun like a go cart! also have 69 and 89 vw bus/ vanagons which are great weekend (69) or multi week (89) campers.

really all different animals, I would say I spend more time working on benz, but it gets many more miles and has much more to go wrong.. I have now for the first time finally kept everything working at same time (ac, cruise, all windows, roof etc.) for a couple months, knock on wood dash....

not really comparable replacements, which is why you need one of each

The only thing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes is a cheap air cooled VW.

I loved my 70 bug and would only get one as a toy. It always ran but would only hit 70mph going down hill with a tail wind. Heat on that one got hot enough to melt the foot vents.

We sold the bug when we bought a 75 MGB because 2 people certainly didn't need 2 cars. I was stupid in love with the B & overlooked the fact that I replaced the spare tire with a tool box in case I needed to do a valve job on the way to work. I always kept tools to tweak the Zenith Stromburg carb - until the manifold cracked & a friend gave me a set of HS4s that needed a rebuild (Of course).

The SD is much more comfortable and Safe. I have a 78 Datsun Z in case I want to live dangerously. The Z is waiting in the garage for a turbo transplant and megasquirt. Perhaps next year.

__________________
85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

Can't help but chime in... I've owned a 71 Super Beetle (semi-auto stick, ugh), 75 fuel-injected 4 speed Beetle, 71 Bus. Overall, my sense of them is that they were approachable when it came to repairs: you could drop the engine relatively easily to get at a clutch, you could time the engine easily, brakes were simple. However, not everything was fun: laying on the ground to do the valve adjustments was a chore I am happy to skip. The Beetles were OK, not great, on power; the bus was a disaster in any state that had hills larger than a freeway overpass. Out here in Oregon I felt like I was taking my life in my hands to go out on the freeway and try and keep up with traffic.

Compared to my '79 240D, none of the air-cooled VW's I've owned holds a candle. The 240D runs better, gets better mileage, standard maintenance is easier to do, climbs hills fine, is more comfortable, carries more people in greater comfort... it really is no contest. The ONLY thing that the VW might have over the Mercedes is that engine rebuilds are cheaper and less finicky... which is a good thing, because you're going to do them often!

Even little things are easier on the 240D. Just tonight I was out adjusting the rear brakes because the parking brake was going down too many notches. On the 240D you take the tire and rim off, and access the adjuster through one of the mounting bolt holes, from the outside. On the VW I used to have to crawl under the car to get at the hole that was in the back of the brake mounting plate. Advantage Mercedes!

Actually, when I think about it, the VW does have one other thing going for it: the clutch system is not hydraulic, as I recall. Bleeding the clutch on the 240D is a pain.

Kurt

__________________
- '79 240D - engine swap complete! Engine broken in! 28-31 mpg! Lovin' the ride!
- '86 190D (W201-126) - 2.5 NA engine, 5 speed, cloth interior, manual climate controls, 33-34 mpg (sold to forum member).

You know, I have driven a bug, as well as a microbus. They seem fun and all, but I think that the biggest thing to me is safety. That would have to be the "Ultimate cost factor", don't you agree? If you pay with your life, then the game is over!

I know for sure and for certain that if I had to choose a car to get hit in, and the choice was between a Bug and my 240D, I'd choose the 240D any day and twice on Sundays.

Just this summer, a lady in the neighborhood came up and said "Nice 240D. I will always remember this car!" I said: "Why's that?" She said: "Because my family and I were in this exact model back in the late 70s, and we got into a 70 MPH head-on collision. It totaled the car, but EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE CAR WALKED AWAY WITH ONLY SCRATCHES! And that's why I will always remember this exact car and model. My family and I owe our life to how well that car was built. I wish they still made them. Yours looks to be in really great shape!"

Enuf said.

Packman

__________________
83 240D - 4 speed manual - Manilla Beige
189K miles, Tachometer mod, cool wooden shift knob from PeachParts, CocoMats, Original factory paint, manual windows, manual sunroof. Starting to add AudioWrap to this car too!

My close friend always tells me about his story, He was hit broadside on interstate doing 70, The compact flipped the 300D he was driving and he remembers all the glass blowing out of the car as his slid to a twirling stop, upside-down and walked away... He believes the car saved his life. Have another friend that took a front end collision in one that folded up the entire front of the car, all the doors still open like normal and he walked away says the same thing... Plus of course all the stories you hear on here that are similar. Makes me feel safer driving one. AS an added bonus you CAN find the w123 with drivers side airbag (My 85TD has one)

Crash test mercedes w123 - YouTube

vw beetle and golf (rabbit) crash test - YouTube

here's some pics of VW's after wrecks...
notice one close to the front, looks like a tire went out, so they put a skateboard under it to drive... VW Beetle wrecks and crashes - YouTube
I had a '65 as a HS graduation gift. I never noticed it as being slow, 1300cc I drove that until the brakes started acting up, and then a barn landed on it after a hurricane came through... I was going to fix it, but some hooligans decided to smash every single piece of glass on the car... WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY to expensive to fix...

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!