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  #1  
Old 10-26-2012, 03:12 PM
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Guaging Interest in a ACC project

First: I know this is just on the edge of insane and complex, but this is definitely something that I am interested in doing.

Okay, as we all know (or will know) the ACC system works great when it does work. As thing age in our cars, expensive parts (like the vacuum pods) break/leak air and cause problems with other vacuum systems in our cars. With the advancements in modern technology, things like controlling a seemingly complex ACC system is something that can be implemented in something like $40-50 worth of parts.

What I am attempting to do (as soon as I find a worthy parts car anywhere near me) is augmenting/shoehorning/replacing the ACC system and its vaccum-related solenoids with electronic servo motors and PWM to control the flaps for each component, control the monovalve, and finally put some safety circuits in between the ACC and the aux coolant pump.

The only reason this makes financial sense is I could retrofit servos and a good AVR/Arduino microcontroller for the cost of 1-2 vacuum pods and not worry about this part of the car for a while. Eventually things like IP timing can be monitored (with the right retrofitting of sensors, etc).

What do you all think?

PS=I know i'm crazy.

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  #2  
Old 10-26-2012, 03:14 PM
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The big caveat here is I'd have to create a system that will allow mounting of a servo where a vacuum pod would go without severe modification of the airbox or its parts. The major piece i'd need to make this happen is a evaporator/heater core for a 300D. The rest is going to be pretty straight-forward.
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Current:
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2012, 03:17 PM
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You are not crazy...

However, the ACC system gets a bad rap. My car is 35 years old and the system works perfectly, even with a 10 year old Mantis servo.

The key to correct operation is in-car and ambient temp sensors that operate within range and a temp wheel without gaps in its signal.

Vacuum pods are not that hard to change. My center vent pod lasted 35 years and was only recently replaced. The foam hose to the in-car temp sensor must also be intact.

#1 case of blown ACC fuses, and one that is almost always blamed on the servo, is a shorted A/C low pressure switch.

I will be happy to offer support to anyone with ACC problems....Robert
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Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership
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  #4  
Old 10-26-2012, 03:27 PM
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bd1308 - I say go for it! for $50 you're not exactly breaking the bank and I bet people would buy a kit if it were reasonably priced and had instructions.

Good luck!
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2012, 03:42 PM
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I have a heater/evap core that I would gladly donate to this cause.... But it's in Washington State. Bummer, eh?

not all of us are blessed with functional climate control after 35 years. My 300D has every freaking pod blown out, and I own a box of evil servos that can't be combined in to one working unit. Given the cost of replacing every part with original style replacements, I'd be happy to retrofit modern bits. I'm also a complete geek, and I love me some electrons. If I can assist in any way, just let me know.
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2012, 03:54 PM
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The idea is to keep all of the buttons the same, just replace the solenoids and vacuum pods with servo motors controlled by a arduino. I could go all out with a LCD screen and what-not, but keeping this thing stock-ish as possible is what i'm after.

That being said, there is something to be said only replacing pods every 25 years. The only thing I forsee is being in a situation where I'm not able to order these things anymore. Coming from the Porsche/VW aircooled world, things just randomly go NLA without notice. Although I keep being told that "people drive these things all over the world", I've seen three and I used to see them on the road all the time.

Just trying to keep options open in hopes it'll help someone.
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Current:
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  #7  
Old 10-26-2012, 03:55 PM
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Greyhound does shipping I don't know how big these are, but I'm planning on one day getting a engine/trans shipped so I can rebuild it at some point and greyhound is apparently cheap for freight items.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAdams4458 View Post
I have a heater/evap core that I would gladly donate to this cause.... But it's in Washington State. Bummer, eh?

not all of us are blessed with functional climate control after 35 years. My 300D has every freaking pod blown out, and I own a box of evil servos that can't be combined in to one working unit. Given the cost of replacing every part with original style replacements, I'd be happy to retrofit modern bits. I'm also a complete geek, and I love me some electrons. If I can assist in any way, just let me know.
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Current:
*1984 300D ~200K,1989 MR2 250K, 2012 Ford Fusion 4.5K (fiance's car to replace the uber-unsafe cavalier)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past: 1998 Chevy Cavalier ,2005 Saab 9-3 2.0T, 1996 Mazda Protege, 1974 Porsche 914 2.0, 1997 Land Rover Discovery 4.0L/5Speed, 1995 Jeep Wrangler
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2012, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAdams4458 View Post
Not all of us are blessed with functional climate control after 35 years.
I make a living out of keeping these systems working...
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Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership
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  #9  
Old 10-26-2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
I make a living out of keeping these systems working...
How exactly do you do that? Do you own a shop, or work for Behr?

EDIT: The reason I ask is that I dont want to do anything that would hurt anybody's career or livelyhood. All I'm really wanting is some help and/or parts so I can do this for myself. If there's enough interest, I'd build a kit, but it's definitely open-source and should be easy enough to plug in.

I'm just tired of my feet being freezing cold in the winter, with the heat in full defrost mode, and honestly I'd like to eventually work more functions into the microcontroller at a later point. The microcontroller, as it stands right now, will probably be idle most of the time.
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Current:
*1984 300D ~200K,1989 MR2 250K, 2012 Ford Fusion 4.5K (fiance's car to replace the uber-unsafe cavalier)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past: 1998 Chevy Cavalier ,2005 Saab 9-3 2.0T, 1996 Mazda Protege, 1974 Porsche 914 2.0, 1997 Land Rover Discovery 4.0L/5Speed, 1995 Jeep Wrangler

Last edited by bd1308; 10-26-2012 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2012, 05:20 PM
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This would be pretty easy to design and code. You would need the following:

Interior air temp sensor
Engine temp sensor
Econ switch (tells the system if you want AC or not)
PCM blower motor controller
PCM for mono valve
Digital temp selector

It actually interesting, I bought an ACC retrofit for the Golf. I wonder how well it could be adapted to the Benz's.

On a side note, if you wanted to make something fun, come up with a VGT controller to retrofit modern turbo's on the early cars!
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd1308 View Post
How exactly do you do that? Do you own a shop, or work for Behr?
I work on classics and special interest cars and I do quite a few of these old Chryslers and MBZ's with the ACC II system.

You won't be hurting anyone's business, so I say press on with your solution and good luck!!!!
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Did you just pass my 740 at 200 kmh in a 300SD?????

1978 300SD 'Phil' - 1,315,853 Miles And Counting - 1, 317,885 as of 12/27/2012 - 1,333,000 as of 05/10/2013, 1,337,850 as of July 15, 2013, 1,339,000 as of August 13, 2013



100,000 miles since June 2005 Overhaul - Sold January 25th, 2014 After 1,344,246 Miles & 20 Years of Ownership
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:18 PM
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I'll start getting my arduino kit out and work something out on a breadboard and go from there. I actually made a arduino powered thermostat that would make a graph of interior temperature and compressor activity so I can set the temp to something reasonable to prevent the AC from running all day and night (AC systems are most efficient when they cycle instead of straining to reach some absurd temperature only possible at the coolest part of the day).

So this should be pretty fun.

I hadn't thought of the VGT controller idea. My idea was to electonically replace the ALDA system with a strong servo to act like the ALDA valve, and to allow adjustments to make more or less fuel (in a function) in response to turbo output, but my ALDA system seems to function OK now.

At the end of this, i'll open source it as a very inexpensive kit (or DIY with instructions) to allow others to get this running. At the same time, i'm setting up a small CNC milling machine to mill circuit boards so I can cut my own custom boards without having to use acid.
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Current:
*1984 300D ~200K,1989 MR2 250K, 2012 Ford Fusion 4.5K (fiance's car to replace the uber-unsafe cavalier)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past: 1998 Chevy Cavalier ,2005 Saab 9-3 2.0T, 1996 Mazda Protege, 1974 Porsche 914 2.0, 1997 Land Rover Discovery 4.0L/5Speed, 1995 Jeep Wrangler
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:19 PM
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Vacuum pods are all electrically controlled. All you need are electric actuators to replace the pods.
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  #14  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:24 PM
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Right now there are tiny solenoids that control the flow of vacuum between the pods and the rest of the system (its right near the fiber optic spider web looking thing for lighting).

Replacing the pods with big solenoids is trivial, however a solenoid is either on or off...A servo can be rotated in any degree (up to 360) in software using PWM. This way we can control things with a fine-grained level of detail all in software, and enable things like ECO mode and AC + recirc in the summer (something that I'm not convinced happens with the current system although i'm not a ACC II genius).
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Current:
*1984 300D ~200K,1989 MR2 250K, 2012 Ford Fusion 4.5K (fiance's car to replace the uber-unsafe cavalier)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past: 1998 Chevy Cavalier ,2005 Saab 9-3 2.0T, 1996 Mazda Protege, 1974 Porsche 914 2.0, 1997 Land Rover Discovery 4.0L/5Speed, 1995 Jeep Wrangler
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  #15  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd1308 View Post
I hadn't thought of the VGT controller idea. My idea was to electonically replace the ALDA system with a strong servo to act like the ALDA valve, and to allow adjustments to make more or less fuel (in a function) in response to turbo output, but my ALDA system seems to function OK now.
If you're going to the trouble of automating the ALDA, you might as well use an EDC pump and let the processor drive it completely. That way you have absolute control over all fueling.

If you want any input on the behavior of the more modern CCU, let me know.

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