Advice on Globe Hoist car lift - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

marfa300td · #1 01-05-2013, 07:28 PM

I recently purchased a 1930-40s era service station. It came with an in-ground hydraulic car hoist made by Globe Hoist without the rails. The lift had been decommissioned in working order in 1984. The owners said the 6" high rails were too high for some cars to drive over without laying boards down first. The rails were in the yard behind the neighboring shop, and I bought the rails back for $50 and put on fresh paint.

I topped off the hydraulic fluid in the reservoir/pressure tank, checked out the air lines, hooked up an air compressor, lubricated the main seal on the lift cylinder and worked it up and down a few times. With that done I put the 300TD on it with some appropriate placed wood blocks and up she went for an oil change. I didn't feel safe yet, so I lowered it onto jack stands before going under. It lifted the 300TD with no problem and lifted the Powerstroke F250 but only barely, like enough for a brake job.

I'd love any advice from old hands who have experience with these things. It's old enough to not have the anti-rotate safety rod that ratchets up to offer backup protection. Instead it has three holes in the cylinder every 18" through which a one-inch rod can be inserted to secure against hydraulic failure.

My first observation was that it needs some sort of steel saddles to hold the vehicle more securely. The back suspension parts seem a bit to curved to rest securely. The front frame is higher than the exhaust pipe so it should have some sort of steel saddle with blocking instead of the wood blocks I used today. I'll use the rod through the cylinder and maybe some heavy pipe next to the cylinder as a backup. Any other advice? Should I abandon all efforts while still alive!?!?

Rob

pawoSD · #2 01-05-2013, 07:35 PM

That is not at all the MB recommended/proper way of lifting the car, can damage/dent stuff lifting it that way. I'd not use it personally.......looks like an accident waiting to happen

vstech · #3 01-05-2013, 09:57 PM

we used one of those in the shop I worked in in 85... always fun for someone to hold the car from rotating while the other operated the controls and lifted the car. ours had two sliders that fit on the rails and held the crossmember of pickups and framed cars.
never used it on unibody cars.
by the way... shop air had to be set to 250psi to lift vehicles on it...

pawoSD · #4 01-05-2013, 10:20 PM

Yeah that thing is totally not intended for unibody vehicles, it looks like its perfect to grab the solid front axle and rear axles of a vehicle of the era it was built for...

TheDon · #5 01-05-2013, 10:26 PM

Head over to garagejournal.com and post there about it. Lots of members are very knowledgable on these old style lifts.

marfa300td · #6 01-05-2013, 10:28 PM

So can you give me an idea of the appropriate lift points for a 300TD? I was thinking of welding up sliders that rested on the long rails and then supported the car at the right points.

The FSM (40-013) calls out some jack shoes but does not show lift points for a service shop hoist.

marfa300td · #7 01-05-2013, 10:33 PM

At 130 PSI it can lift the 300TD to max lift of 4'9". The 8000lb F250 only got 6" off the ground! It shouldn't be a problem working on a 1942 GPW jeep or 66 F100 or even the 61 Ghia with some adapters. I had the F250 on it for an hour and it did not lower at all using just the hydraulic shutoff valve. If I use it, I will have a mechanical backup under the hoist.

vstech · #8 01-05-2013, 10:36 PM

yeah... 130psi ain't gonna lift much with a single cylinder...

Lycoming-8 · #9 01-06-2013, 03:38 AM

Marfa,

I have a very similar lift which dates back to early 50's. It was installed in a vehicle maint. shop on a local radar base. Mine is just exactly recessed into a rectangular pit when fully down, and has never shown any tendency to rotate when running up. It has a rectangular framed plate of sorts that slides on the front across both rails. At the rear there are two individual hinged sliders that are basically heavy angle iron when flipped up. They were meant to support the old style rigid rear axles.

Over the years I have had the 190D and the 220D up on it, as well as a Chrysler New Yorker 3-seat wagon. The compressor usually does not need to get over 120 psi to get the job done. This unit does not appear to have any safety features relative to prevention of drop on loss of air or hydraulic. However I have rarely been under the vehicle, since the central connecting structure makes it very useless for drive train work. Mostly used for brake work, or moving wheels and tires.

Ozarkdude · #10 01-06-2013, 04:25 AM

The problem with those is the pressure vessel in the ground can rust through. When they let go, they can drop suddenly, and rapidly. BANG! I had heard of it but never seen it, but a shop I worked at had one drop while I was out on a parts delivery and the car on it almost fell off. The car suffered a lot of damage, and the mechanic was scared white as a ghost.

Its why all the modern ones are above ground. I am not sure if they are even legal for use anymore or if they can be serviced. Call a service station supply company in your local area and ask them.

automch · #11 01-06-2013, 05:40 AM

As an ASE Mechanic with experience starting in the 60s I am very familiar with that lift. It is rugged and reliable. After reading the replies I do have this to add:

1. Shop air typically is 175 cut out and 150 cut in. That is enough to lift your F250.

2. The reason cars fall off of old inground lifts is fluid leaks. When the fluid gets low air is pumped into the cylinder and as you know air compresses. The lift may reach a spot where it binds slightly and the air compresses until there is enough to move up again and because it is air and the lift is now moving more freely the lift will jump! Ignoring these small(at first) jumps results in larger more violent jumps until something falls off the supports. I have seen it happen. It was good that you filled it before trying it. Watch the fluid level and if it looses fluid you have an underground leak. That is why EPA now requires the cylinder housing to be encased in fiberglass or some type of containment so the ground does not get poluted.

3. Lift your Benz at the jack points and you will not damage it. These spots are designed to handle the weight of the car.

4. The rotation should not be significant, just steady the car the last foot of travel down so it is able to drive off the lift.

5. For the lift to rust through and alow the car to drop rapidly is highly unlikely, but not impossible. It would have to be a major blow out of the cylinder. If it is a normal rust through problem then it will likely be a feed line which will allow the lift to come down at its normal speed, you just won't be able to stop it until it reaches the floor. Use safety stands always!

6. The newer above ground lifts are cheaper, that is why they are so popular. They tend to make more noise and have their share of issues as well. Nothing man made is perfect, all can and will sometime fail in some way.

For my money, I will take the inground every time. Good luck with your new investment. Sounds great.

JB3 · #12 01-06-2013, 06:49 AM

Id say drop it into th floor, and disconnect it completely, then be done with it. You have a piece of hydraulic equipment that hasn't been in use for nearly 30 years, with zero modern safety features, that is potentially 50 to 60 years old. The question you should be asking yourself is does the enjoyment and novelty of using that lift outweigh the safety risks and costs keeping it going?

My advice is to buy another lift and install it, a two post would be nice, and far easier to maintain. I have a 10k two post from the early 90s which cost me less than a grand. I would never trust that in ground lift with my life.

HOWEVER, I just had an interesting idea, if you did keep it in working order and got another lift, you could make different attachments for the top of the inground cylinder to make it an excellent tranny jack or engine lift. (For engines that drop out, ect). Id never stand around underneath it, but id probably use it in that capacity

97 SL320 · #13 01-06-2013, 07:09 AM

Have a look at Auto Lift Parts - Automotive Lifts Repair Parts - Car Lift Repair for parts and what is under the floor.

Older lifts didn't have anti rotation pins for a reason, it was to allow the operator to rotate the car before exiting the shop ( Rotary Lift was a early example )

With some digging you might be able to find a 4 arm head, this would be much more usefull. As for rust, does the area have a high water table or is it very dry? The old rail head has value in the beams so no loss there.

Are you looking for the old time feel or just a place to work on your car? If the latter, buy a above ground lift. These are no big deal to install and a good one isn't too expensive ( $ 3,000 + ) Even a used on can be a good deal if you can tune it up.

Diesel911 · #14 01-06-2013, 11:31 AM

This Tool is for the Front Support area.
MSRP $161 each

Dormison has some Pics of the Lift Points.
The pic on the left is the Rear under the Sub Frame Support
The Pic on the Right is taken from thr rear of the Front Frame right be fore it starts to curve up.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/206015-w123-where-i-place-my-jack-stands-car.html

marfa300td · #15 01-06-2013, 03:42 PM

Thank you all for the excellent comments. I appreciate it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

That is not at all the MB recommended/proper way of lifting the car, can damage/dent stuff lifting it that way. I'd not use it personally.......looks like an accident waiting to happen

You are absolutely correct. It did not look stable at all and I would not work under it in that situation with the long rails and wooden blocks. That was just a test of the lift.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

we used one of those in the shop I worked in in 85... always fun for someone to hold the car from rotating while the other operated the controls and lifted the car. ours had two sliders that fit on the rails and held the crossmember of pickups and framed cars.
never used it on unibody cars.
by the way... shop air had to be set to 250psi to lift vehicles on it...

Some sort of slider is indeed what I had in mind. I have some 1/2" x 8" steel that I can experiment with as a starting point with some welded blocks at lift points. Bracing as needed. I'll probably stick to the lower air pressure. The F250 feels better on jack stands. I don't really want to work under something that heavy unles it involves stands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

Head over to garagejournal.com and post there about it. Lots of members are very knowledgable on these old style lifts.

Thanks! I did get a couple of responses over there:garagejournal.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycoming-8

This unit does not appear to have any safety features relative to prevention of drop on loss of air or hydraulic. However I have rarely been under the vehicle, since the central connecting structure makes it very useless for drive train work. Mostly used for brake work, or moving wheels and tires.

It has two valves. One directs air either into the oil pressure tank or vents that tank to atmosphere. The second valve opens the hydraulic line from the bottom of the tank (which is above ground) to the actual lift. To raise the vehicle the first valve is used to pressurize the tank, then the hydraulic valve is opened to raise. To lower, vent the tank and then open the hydraulic valve again. The hydraulic valve holds the oil pressure even if the air is removed. As I said, there is a 1" hole bored through the cylinder at three heights for a metal rod to be inserted. But I plan to add an additional mechanical backup, maybe some oil field pipe, before going under.

Ozarkdude, I definitely would have mechanical backup of two kinds before working under it. If you see the link from 97 SL320 you will see that they are still made and these are exempt from EPA regulations on underground tanks.

automch, Thanks for the voice of experience. I'm glad you consider them rugged and reliable. The tag on it states that the capacity is 20,000 lb but that would take over 300 psi! Yikes. I'll stick to what I can lift at 130 psi. I will use safety stands for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

Older lifts didn't have anti rotation pins for a reason, it was to allow the operator to rotate the car before exiting the shop ( Rotary Lift was a early example ) With some digging you might be able to find a 4 arm head, this would be much more useful. As for rust, does the area have a high water table or is it very dry? The old rail head has value in the beams so no loss there.

So they were designed to rotate! That's funny. I'm comfy with reverse… I have an old 4 arm head out back that came with the shop but it is for a Western Lift and has a much different bolt pattern. We are high and dry here in the desert southwest. Water table is hundreds of feet below. Elevation is 4700'.

JB3: The thought of removing it crossed my mind. Globe Hoist is well respected and has a strong safety history according to SVI International who still sells parts as well as above ground lifts.

Diesel911, Thanks for the link. Exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I'm not sure I'm going to drop $161 each for four support blocks! But I will make some sliders to fit on the rails and lift by those points.

Thanks everybody for the interesting conversation. I'll post more when I have it. Safety first!