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  #1  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:48 PM
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IDI combustion theory ?

I would like to know, Does the prechamber cup itself get hot enough once running to help support combustion? Or does the glow plug stay hot enough once a few combustion cycles are achieved.

I used to fly glow plug engined model airplanes. Once in while they would stop unexpectedly and sure enough the glow plug wire loop was not in the present in the glow plug. I know that the glow plug engines were not strictly diesels but they seemed to have some similarities in that they they were not spark ignition. Their fuels were perhaps more active with methanol and nitromethane. I could see why they were two strokes to keep things simple lightweight and keep the glow plug hot.

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Old 01-19-2013, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silber Adler View Post
I would like to know, Does the prechamber cup itself get hot enough once running to help support combustion? Or does the glow plug stay hot enough once a few combustion cycles are achieved.

I used to fly glow plug engined model airplanes. Once in while they would stop unexpectedly and sure enough the glow plug wire loop was not in the present in the glow plug. I know that the glow plug engines were not strictly diesels but they seemed to have some similarities in that they they were not spark ignition. Their fuels were perhaps more active with methanol and nitromethane. I could see why they were two strokes to keep things simple lightweight and keep the glow plug hot.
Yes. The glow plug tip is just heated by the combustion.
The fuel is vaporized in the prechamber when the motor is running. The compression then causes the heat necessary to cause combustion. When running the compression achieved is much greater than when doing a compression test.
The glow plug motor comparison is without merit. You can get 2 stroke diesel model airplane motors. They are purely compression ignition.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silber Adler View Post
I would like to know, Does the prechamber cup itself get hot enough once running to help support combustion? Or does the glow plug stay hot enough once a few combustion cycles are achieved.

I used to fly glow plug engined model airplanes. Once in while they would stop unexpectedly and sure enough the glow plug wire loop was not in the present in the glow plug. I know that the glow plug engines were not strictly diesels but they seemed to have some similarities in that they they were not spark ignition. Their fuels were perhaps more active with methanol and nitromethane. I could see why they were two strokes to keep things simple lightweight and keep the glow plug hot.
The Ball Pin certainly get hot enough to help with combustion; see red arrow.
I actually believe the location of the Ball Pin allows worn Injectors to still be functional once the Ball Pin heats up.

The other popular type of IDI precombustion Chamber is the Squish Chamber (Old VW Rabbit Engines). I focuses part of the Injector Spray against part of the Chamber Wall to do the same thing. However the Chamber Wall is against the Cylinder Head and it must remain a lot cooler than the Ball Pin does.

Anything that retains heat in the Precombustion Chamber must help with Comboustion. However, if the Injector spray gets too close to the Glow PLug it will burn through it.
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IDI combustion theory ?-w-glow-plug-jan-13.jpg   IDI combustion theory ?-volvo-precombustion-chamber-jan-13.jpg  
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Last edited by Diesel911; 01-19-2013 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:42 PM
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I have an 86 Jetta TD which is probably just as you describe. I get 55 mpg (US) with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
The Ball Pin certainly get hot enough to help with combustion; see red arrow.
I actually believe the location of the Ball Pin allows worn Injectors to still be functional once the Ball Pin heats up.

The other popular type of IDI precombustion Chamber is the Squish Chamber (Old VW Rabbit Engines). I focuses part of the Injector Spray against part of the Chamber Wall to do the same thing. However the Chamber Wall is against the Cylinder Head and it must remain a lot cooler than the Ball Pin does.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Silber Adler View Post
I have an 86 Jetta TD which is probably just as you describe. I get 55 mpg (US) with it.
My Volvo Diesel Engine is made by VW and has many parts in common with the Rabbit.

When I rebuilt the block I used oversized Pistons for a VW Rabbit that were made in Brazil.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:29 AM
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Think of the glow plugs as performing the task of a block heater - but instead of heating the water jacket around the cylinders they warm up the air in the combustion chamber.

As mentioned above by layback40 heat is produced during the compression stroke. (Quickly) Compress air and it gets hot. (Quickly) expand air and it gets cold => don't hold onto a nozzle of a CO2 fire extinguisher and release the gas!

Even though quickly compressed air gets hot; unfortunately on a cold engine this heat buggers off quite quickly into the surrounding parts of the engine. The glow plugs give a bit of a boost. They are only in use before the engine starts - they are not used like a spark plug (or the model aircraft example you gave) to ignite the fuel once the engine is running.

Here's a nice link telling more

Indirect injection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:16 PM
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So the Ball Pin (sort of a bridle) in the pre chamber acts similar to a constantly running glow plug. I guess I didn't see them when I had the injectors out.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:55 PM
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I don't believe the diffuser ball glows, as they're always black when you remove the injectors. Their purpose is to help atomize the fuel spray and reduce ignition delay. The reason Mercedes has such a complicated combustion system is to make the engine quiet enough for a luxury car.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rscurtis View Post
I don't believe the diffuser ball glows, as they're always black when you remove the injectors. Their purpose is to help atomize the fuel spray and reduce ignition delay. The reason Mercedes has such a complicated combustion system is to make the engine quiet enough for a luxury car.
The Ball Pin should get nearly as hot as combustion. Between the combustion cycle there is some time for it to get cooler but there is a limited area for the heat to transfrer from it.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silber Adler View Post
So the Ball Pin (sort of a bridle) in the pre chamber acts similar to a constantly running glow plug. I guess I didn't see them when I had the injectors out.
Next time you have the injectors out, turn the glow plugs on and you'll be able to see the ball pin. Very cool.

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