I'm Back! S-10 OM617 Project - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Dan Stokes · #1 02-11-2013, 06:57 PM

Sorry guys. Been gone since October as I've been working on the shop and on the S-10.

A reminder - I'm building an S-10 with M-B Diesel power. Donor engine is from an '84 300SD. I'm also using (at least for now) the stock B-W auto trans. No clue how to post pics on here but there's a bunch of them on - go to "Forums" then "Project Car Updates" then "As Promised - Dan's (Sorta) New LSR Project" (or something like that). Also a reminder - this is a Land Speed Race only project and will never see the road except on a trailer.

The engine is sitting in on it's own feet but I still have to make the trans mount and finish modifying the trans tunnel but it's close to what I need.

We have a local EXCELLENT trans guy who is familiar with this trans and will stop by the shop to show me what I need (and don't need) to make the trans work so that's covered.

Here are the questions:

Does anyone have the info (prefer with a drawing) of the MINIMUM to make the engine run? Remember this will never run in cold weather so I don't think I need glow plugs. I'm pretty sure I have the shut-off figured and know how to make it shut off with the required battery power switch at the rear of the truck. So basically, I need the info to get fuel flowing and the alternator alternating.

What does the plastic box on top of the cam cover do and can I remove it? Partly it's just TOO ugly, especially if it isn't providing a function I need.

Has anyone done a rear main seal with the crank still in the engine? We used to do rope seals in American engines all the time by pushing them out with a cotter pin in the oil hole then reinstall the new one with a Chinese finger puzzle sort of deal. Is this possible on the OM617? Mine is bleeding like the proverbial stuck pig but I sure don't want to take the engine that far apart unless I have no choice.

Is there some kind of better rear main seal?

Thanks guys. I appreciate whatever input you can give.

Dan

Squiggle Dog · #2 02-11-2013, 07:05 PM

I think a pin prevents the upper half of the rear rope seal from sliding through like you can on American cars.

ROLLGUY · #3 02-11-2013, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Stokes

Does anyone have the info (prefer with a drawing) of the MINIMUM to make the engine run? Remember this will never run in cold weather so I don't think I need glow plugs. I'm pretty sure I have the shut-off figured and know how to make it shut off with the required battery power switch at the rear of the truck. So basically, I need the info to get fuel flowing and the alternator alternating.

What does the plastic box on top of the cam cover do and can I remove it? Partly it's just TOO ugly, especially if it isn't providing a function I need.

Has anyone done a rear main seal with the crank still in the engine? We used to do rope seals in American engines all the time by pushing them out with a cotter pin in the oil hole then reinstall the new one with a Chinese finger puzzle sort of deal. Is this possible on the OM617? Mine is bleeding like the proverbial stuck pig but I sure don't want to take the engine that far apart unless I have no choice.

Is there some kind of better rear main seal?

Thanks guys. I appreciate whatever input you can give.

Dan

For the crank seal:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/298852-rear-crankshaft-rope-seal-replacement-without-removing-crank.html

All the emission related stuff can go away (black box on VC, EGR, all vacuum except shutoff and brake booster). As far as what is needed to run the engine, the alternator is not even needed unless you have the need of lights. The engine will run without a battery. Power is only needed for the glow plugs and starter.

Dan Stokes · #4 02-12-2013, 09:48 AM

Thanks guys!

The link to the rear seal replacement was invaluable. Not looking forward to it but that seems to be the job ahead of me. Still, now I know what to do.

I will run the alternator as I'll need to battery start. Pretty sure my Chilton's will have the diagram - another thing to research.

Current fuel plan is to put a small fuel cell on the core support and plumb directly from the (in Cummins jargon) lift pump to the cell and back to the cell from the bypass line. Anyone see an issue with that?

Dan

vstech · #5 02-12-2013, 10:18 AM

I would DEFINITELY keep the glow plugs working.

you can block off the vacuum pump, and use a straw to shut down manually if you like...

fuel in, GP controller can be a simple knife switch for manual control use when needed, but a momentary switch would be wiser... starter button, etc...
MOST race sanctioning bodies require a cut off switch be external to the vehicle... hard to do unless there is vacuum present, or you rig a cable to pull the STOP lever.
GO!

come on! pics are easy on this forum. just click Go Advanced, click Manage Attachments, and link to them (the 4 uploads per post is annoying...)

vstech · #6 02-12-2013, 10:25 AM

wait...
you're building a land speed truck... with an auto slushbox? are you loosing the TC? seems like a limiting factor to me.
our 68Drag camaro had a slushbox th400, but we put in a bronze disk clutch instead of the TC...

Simpler=Better · #7 02-12-2013, 11:28 AM

For simplicity's sake I would remove the vac shutoff form the IP, and replace it with a (polished) blockoff plate. A choke cable can be attachd to the linkage for shutoff

for a drag car, I would remove:
Alternator
AC
PS
EGR
Vac pump
ALDA
Vac shutoff

Then I would add:
EGT probe pre-turbo
Goost gauge
fuel pressure gauge post secondary filter, right before the IP

I will be very, very disappointed if you don't run a hood stack

Dan Stokes · #8 02-12-2013, 12:28 PM

I already dumped the EGR.

NOT a drag car - LSR.

I'll keep the auto as built with torque converter for now. Later (probably next winter) the plan is to get the Bentsen's adaptor and go with some sort of manual (still puzzling out which one). Manuals are really better for LSR so this trans is just a starting point.

Please explain the process to lose the vacuum shut off. Any pics would be helpful as I'm a visual learner.

Speaking of pics - I found the "add pics" area so here they come:

Just a couple - mounts welded in and the engine in the hole.

Dan

Simpler=Better · #9 02-12-2013, 01:19 PM

Ah sorry. Lots of torque will help you get your record...although slowly.

This bad boy, as seen on dieselgiant's site.

How to Repair Your Shutoff Valve

Dan Stokes · #10 02-12-2013, 09:21 PM

THANKS for the link on the shutoff. My plan for now is to use a vacuum reservoir (lots of cars have them) actuated with a normally open solenoid valve. That way anytime power is removed the valve closes and the engine stops. So I can use either a dash-mounted switch or it will cut off when the rear battery power switch is turned off. The power switch is required by the sanctioning body and it MUST make the engine stop as well as killing battery power so this should work well. Still, it's great to have the info in case I decide to do something different.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I have a manual brake master cylinder and leads on the right brake pushrod so I can convert to manuals and not worry about the vacuum booster - and it'll make more room which is always good under a race car hood. PS is long gone as is the A/C pump and pretty much anything that doesn't make the engine run. Looking forward to having trans info so I know what else I can chuck - I'm thinking probably I'll need the vacuum line and maybe a little linkage. No need for WOT downshifts so I can loose that stuff, to (I think).

Dan

ROLLGUY · #11 02-12-2013, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Stokes

THANKS for the link on the shutoff. My plan for now is to use a vacuum reservoir (lots of cars have them) actuated with a normally open solenoid valve. That way anytime power is removed the valve closes and the engine stops. So I can use either a dash-mounted switch or it will cut off when the rear battery power switch is turned off. The power switch is required by the sanctioning body and it MUST make the engine stop as well as killing battery power so this should work well. Still, it's great to have the info in case I decide to do something different.

Dan

That means you will need the vacuum pump, yes?

Dan Stokes · #12 02-12-2013, 09:33 PM

As long as I'm running the auto trans and the vacuum shutoff I will. Both things are subject to change as the truck evolves. This a first cut at what will eventually become a long-term project. I ran the last one for 4 years or so so I'll be 70 when that rolls around for this ol' boy.

Just for fun, here's a pic of the lower pan (as I guess you guys call it) or sump in my language. Had to modify it for steering linkage and sway bar clearance. Oops - wrong pic and I don't know how to edit pics. I meant to do the pic with scallops on both front and rear of the sump - oh, well.

Dan

Simpler=Better · #13 02-12-2013, 10:05 PM

Vacuum controls how hard the transmission shifts. No vacuum, and it slams between gears. "full" vacuuum, and it's soft.

I ran mine with no vacuum, and let off the pedal right before shifts

I like the sump, if you want to spend $$$ you can get a custom one piece upper/lower that's got better clearance for a truck....but I can see you know how to weld so that's useless :p

Dan Stokes · #14 02-13-2013, 09:17 AM

I sure don't weld like I'd like to (or used to) but I can git 'er done. My stuff looked better when I had better vision - a bunch of operations have kept me seeing so no complaints. Those of you with diabetes - learn from my example and take care of it! I do now, after medical science has pieced me back together as best as they can.

Dan

Dan Stokes · #15 02-13-2013, 05:50 PM

A bit of progress today but nothing worth a pic.

I pulled the glow plug harness out of there and also found a spot to bolt the fuel filter assembly. I had to have hoses made from the fuel filter to the priming pump and back to the fuel rail (at least I think that's where that second one went went). I took the MB lines in to a local Diesel shop and they claimed that you couldn't just replace the line with the stock fittings. Did I get hosed (so to speak)? If I could just replace the line please tell me the type of material to use.

Turns out there was a mount pad on the driver's side (left) front of the head casting with threaded holes and exactly the right spacing for the filter base. The filter originally was bolted to the PS pump so M-B didn't intend to put the filter there - but maybe in some other configuration? Anyhow, it was a happy coincidence. I even had a couple of M-B socket head screws that were the right length. DEAL!!

Dan

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode