First Car / Short Drives
 

I have been reading this forum for sometime and I have learned many valuable things about diesel Mercedes from this forum but I have two questions I need answered.
I am planning on buying a 300SD Mercedes for about $5000 as my first car. My father says I should not buy a used car but a new one as it will have a warranty and such. Is it a good idea to buy a Mercedes as my first car or should I go for something less unique (around here you don't see any)?
Also, I have read that short drives are hard on deisel engines and that usually about 7 miles will be enough to burn off any condensation in the engine and enough to recharge the battery. Will idling the car for a little while before you drive away be equivalent to this or not?

Your help would be appreciated.

For a first car you want the slowest, simpliest, safest car you can afford. A 70's w123 240D meets those requirements PERFECTLY. Sure it might be as flashy as a nice 300SD but you'll be happy when you don't have problems with electrical, vacuum, and climate control systems.

You could get a good 240D for a fraction of that 300SD and use the rest of the money to put a CD player in (not one of those flashy ones, just a simple Pioneer one) fix a few minor things and spend the rest on a gf or just save it.



Anyways, Idling the car before you drive off in the morning won't do anything, your best bet it to plug the engines block heater in every night so you have a jump start on the warm up process.

EDIT: You should also look for a manual tranny, a little faster and less complicated compared to the Auto

Thank you Capn Kirk but the thing is that the 300SD is in almost mint comndition as this guy babied it and had it taken care of insanely well. He is a friend of the family so I may also be able to get it for cheaper but in all the time I have been looking I have not seen any 240's around here at all.

But thank you for the answer about the op. temp. of the engine that will probably save some headaches in the future. But as for slowest car I can get, I dont think that will work out too well.

you'd be surprised what kinda trouble that 3L Turbo Diesel will get you into.

At least with the 240D you could be like "But officer, it's a 240D, I didn't know it was capible of those speeds"

Also, knowing how to drive a stick is a good lesson.

But hey, if the 300SD is readily avalible buy it. What year is it btw?

Yeah speeding is not really a problem around here as most of the hotspots are know to all drivers but I also have a habit of never speeding unless Krynski is involved (long story). I know it is early 80's and I think it is before 86 at most but I dont know the exact year. The 240d would most likely be cheaper for insurance but other than that (and speed) what are their major differences?

Scuba,

Older cars, even ones as well built as Mercedes, require a certain degree of attention. I suppose you could buy an old Mercedes and just drive it until it won't start....but if you prefer things to function, then you will need to be ready to work on it some. Many of the things that go wrong with an old car are just the product of aging - like rubber pieces that go bad over time.

So part of your decision should be the interest you have in tinkering with the car (I'm assuming you don't have the deep pockets to just take it to the shop every time something goes wrong). If you are mechanically inclined, or want to be, an old diesel Mercedes is a great thing to have. Fairly easy to work on and lots of quality built in. As long as you stay ahead of the repair/replacement power curve, the cars are very dependible. I'd drive mine anywhere tomorrow.

I think a big part of the pleasure in owing one of these is being able to improve the car by spending time working on it.

Good luck,

Nic
'85 300CD @ 150k miles

The biggest differences lay in the extras. On the SD it'll have power/automated everything from the windows to the climate control (when that fails then it's costly) on the 240D the only things that are powered are the steering and brakes. Those systems on the SD require attention which in turn require you to fiddle with stuff that you might not want to. If you get a 240D with a manual then the only things you'd have to worry about is changing the oil and topping of the fluids every once and a while.


Mercedes Benz are very reliable cars because the owners (especially the ones with older cars) stay on top of everything. If you have no desire to do any of the work your self then your better off with a Honda. If your willing to do the work that needs doing but aren't made of money get the 240D. If your will to pay for all the work that needs done then get the 300SD.

Either MB route you go down it will cost money and take some of your free time away to do maintence. Which MB depends on what you can afford. If you don't even want your hands dirty then the MB isn't for you.

For a first car you want something that will last you a year or 2 that is safe and won't get you in trouble. Sure you want a flashy car to drive to impress your friends. Heck we all remember those people that got brand new Camero's or Mustangs when they turned 16, we also all remember how many of those Camero's or Mustangs survived more then 2 years with a wreck. Once you've gained experience behind the wheel of a car then you can move up to the 300SD, but to begin with you'll be better off with the 240D.


I learned to drive on a 1984 Volkwagen Diesel Rabbit. It had a 5 speed transmission, Manual steering, and somehow power brakes. It had A/C but that never worked, but it did have windows that rolled down (manual windows). The Engine had a total of 52 hp that the car needed all of everytime I accelerated when the light turned green. Sadly it started having oil pressure problems that we didn't want to spend the time fixing. But getting rid of the rabbit wasn't a sad thing, it had performed above and beyond the call of duty. My next car that I really could call my "first car" was the 1989 Diesel Jetta you see in my sig. It had power steering this time around, but everything else about it was the same as the Rabbit (down to the drive train). We needed to replace the tranny after my brother drove it a while (6 months) without using hte clutch to shift gears most of the time. On that car I learned many of the DIY mechanic skills I posses today (on that car there was a lot of imaginitive things I had to do to keep it working). It served me faithfully (even more so then the Rabbit) for a long time. I became very skilled at driving a manual tranny equiped car. The reason I was forced to get rid of it was a seal in the IP broke causing a crap load of fuel to leak out the bottom. It would have cost $1000+ to fix the car.

After those 2 cars I got my 300D which has cost me a lot of money, but has also performed flawlessly. I've done all the work on it my self and I haven't had a single problem doing that.

Here's some of my more memorible threads:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=29542
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=29338
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=30123
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=30477

Look through those and tell me if your willing to do all that to the 300SD to keep it running. Keep on mind the 240D would require only about 10% of that stuff.


I know I maybe raining on your parade but I'm just trying to help you out. If you feel really good about that 300SD take it to MB shop and have them look over it. Ask them what types of things break on that type of car and how much it costs to fix it.

Thanks for all you help and you have basically told me what I wanted to hear, if you take care of it, fix all of the little things yourself, and stay ontop of regular maintenaince it should be fine. It is either a choice between this car or a new car (12k with monthly payments of 200 for 5 years). I personally do not see how a 300SD can cost me $7000 in repairs in 5 years unless I decide to toss a match in the gas tank.

Just thought I'd pipe in as I'm a new MB owner. I recently bought a 82 240d with a standard transmission & boy am I one happy guy :D!

(except for the fact that my wife is kind of hogging the 240d & leaves me driving the Toyota Previa :( )

Like Capt. Kirk has suggested, my 240d doesn't have a lot of bells & whistles and is really easy to fix. The standard trans. makes this car a blast to drive and it is simple to work on!! Everything is easily accessiable and like Larry Bible suggested - having 4 cylinders rather than 5 cyl reduces my own labour by 20%


Aivars

actually throwing a match in there shouldn't be a problem.

i'm gonna call Bull ***** on whoever said that you can easily get into trouble with an SD. Fact of the matter is, almost all the cars on the road can out accelerate you. 0-60 is in the mid 13's, and in general, it is a slow car. Granted, not as slow as a 240d, but quick is not exactly what i would call it. The s-class definately makes up for it's lack of speed in other aspects though. For example, it has a better ride then most of my friends 15k+ plus cars, it has more power options then any 83 model year car i know of, it's safe as a bank vault, and it actually handles quite well. Not to mention it drives awesome above 80mph. Go for the SD, but learn how to fix it yourself, or else youll go broke. BTW, my SD was my second car after a nightmear experiance with a buick century. But with that 3.3l sixer, that century woudl haul
Ryan

I'm still sticking with my story that a 240D will keep you out of more trouble compared to the 300SD.


Your thinking from a point that a 300SD is "cooler" then the 240D. When it comes to a first car that is the last thing you should be thinking about. You want SAFETY, REALIABLITY, and ECONOMY.

I was debating posting this link, but it proves my point perfectly

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259726&highlight=%2410k+desk


read through that for a few pages and my point will all of a sudden dawn on you. If you really need me to expain then email me at aphillips@ix.netcom.com

If you have a problem with that link (you find it objectionable) then you need to take some hummor pills.

I vote for the 300sd it can be as good as any 240d anytime. Take it to a good shop and have them check it out. If there is not much work need to do and you don't mind doing it go for it. I have had and driven both 240d and 300sd and the sd is the smoothes ride. Yea little things go wrong but as long as the engine and trans. is in good shape little thing can be worked on when you have time.
Bill

Hey TxBill, you forgot to include yeast-based beverages in the above!

:D

Aivars

Captain Kirk I went to that link and I have no idea how that proves anything, it is like comparing apples to oranges/desks to cars. It is not at if I am spending way too much money on this car as this is normally what good condition SD's go for. I would understand if the car was 10k how you could disagree with my choice to buy it. And as for the car being slow/fast/whatever I am not worried about getting into trouble with it because I do not like driving fast on city streets, despite the urgings of friends, but when I am driving around up farther north where some of my friends live everyone likes to go fats sometimes so I will need some speed and with what you're saying I dont think a 240d will cut it.

Yes and on another note that was originally posted on this thread about a block heater reducing the time to get the engine to op. temp., how much would this reduce the time/distance needed to reach op. temp.? I am concerned because while I am prepared to change the oil a little more often and take a little better care of the car I want to prevent as many problems as much as I want to fix them. I ask because for the next little while the car will probably only be driven short distances much of the time and I want to know how much a block heater will help.

Thanks for that advice and on that I think I will get a heater anyways because while this winter was fairly warm (it rarely went below 5 degrees C) there have been many bad winters here and I would love instant heat.

scubahood86,

The biggest difference between a mid '80s 300SD and a 240D is the chassis. The 300SD is bigger, by a significant margin. It is also heavier. And by design it is intended to be more luxurious.

My first car was a 1967 Fiat 124 Sport Spyder, passed on to me by my Father in my second year of college after he had run it for nearly 5 years and 70,000 miles. It was a good learner car, but the first car I bought was a new 1975 240D after my Mom got a 1971 220D, and the nation went through a gas shortage. That 220D experience, best described by unequalled reliability, simplicity, and economy convinced me the Mercedes-Benz Diesel would always have a spot in my driveway.

Now, to your issue. Both options are good, so you cannot lose. I would take a W123 (240D) chassis before I would go for the larger car, just because it is more agile and lighter feeling. To me that means more fun to drive.

Unless I am going up a noticable hill, once you get to 45 or 50 mph in 4th gear, the 240D is pretty responsive for a less than 70 hp machine. This car will also teach you a lot about the relationship of torque and horsepower. The larger car with its larger engine, and turbocharger is easier to drive, and has more get up and go. Properly driven the lighter 240D just seems more fun to me, and that would make the difference. Good Luck, Jim

I have been looking into 240d's fairly close to me (the closest I have found is 3 hours away and I am not going to spend $70 in gas driving my parents van to go check it out so I will keep my eye out for one but dont think it would be practical or reasonable to wait that long until I find a good one. Also my town has some pretty wicked hills (probably around 30-40 degrees) and I am wondering if a 240d could make it up them at a reasonable speed. Hey you never know I could end up with both since its not like they cost an arm and a leg to own, but thats probably unlikely but I can dream cant I?
As for the heater if most northern model cars come with one it should not be a problem up here.

.........


Just anwser these two questions:

Will you be doing all, some, or none of the work required on this car?

Will you be paying to support the car (insurance, parts, fuel, labor)?

I will be doing a lot of the work on this car either by myself or with help and I will be paying for the fuel and parts (with some possible financial help) and basically everything except insurance.

just go for the SD, you wont regret it. Doesn't it have anti-lock in 85 as well? that'd be a major plus if it did. IF you go for the SD youll be driving an s-class mercedes, the 240d's cant touch that. They both have their strong points, but i'd take a 300SD over a 240 any day of the week/year etc. Granted, I havn't ever owned a 240 to know, but my SD is slow enough thank you! The car is a peice of cake to work on, especially with all the knowledgeable people here, and everyone is always willing to help as you are finding out right now. This website is worth millions to the mercedes owner. If you find a good eurpean recycler yard near you the parts can almost be had for pennies as well. Get the SD and dont look back.
Ryan

My question to Scubahood would be, do you like the feel of a lighter and smaller car while working the engine through manual gearshifts, or do want to relax in the surroundings of a larger feel letting the automatic shifts take you along with a quieter engine and smoother ride?

i'm going to have to disagree once again. I absolutely love manual tranny's, and i'd love my SD to have one, but i wouldn't be able to deal with the slowness of a 240d. I know i'm being an opinionated SOB right now, but thats my story and i'm sticking to it..... I'd love to have a honda civic/ acura integra as a play car with a 5 spd, that would be simply awesome to me! The simple matter of it is though, the SD is a nicer car, it is quicker, has more options, and is a classier looking car. Granted, i own an SD so my opinion may be just a tad partial :D. Anyway, for a youngster like myself a slower car just wouldn't be acceptable, and i would not enjoy driving it, manual or not. And as for engine noise, thats why radios were invented right??? :rolleyes: now, let the flaming of my opinions begin!! ;) have a good night,
Ryan

one more side comment: if you found me a 300D turbo(w123) with a 5spd i'd trade you any day of the week for my current SD. I just dont think a manual is much fun unless there is power to play with. On the other hand, a ton of power isn't much fun without a manual to play with;) Again, this is just my opinionated self rambling
Ryan

Ryan, I agree with you, a 300D-T with a 5 speed would kick butt. But we are talking about a first car here, the best car for that role would be a 240D. Instead of jumping right on in the swimming pool of cars on the first day it's warm enough, he should stick his toe in to test it out (with the 240D, that analogy kinda sucked).

true, but a SD isn't a rocket, i'm sure it'd be a perfectly good choice for a first car. My first car was much quicker then the SD.... Didnt' ever get a ticket it in, only in the mercedes.........:rolleyes:
Ryan

txbill: my brother is currently looking at getting a 92 integra GS-r, i forget the HP rating, but those things are faaast for a little two door coupe thing. That IMO would be a ton of fun. I guess i can't make a wise judgement about what's better or worse without seeing it from the other side, but i truely can't imagine anything slower than my SD being practical-or even safe in the traffic we have down here. There are times when you NEED to get on it. I guess i'd have to drive each for a week to see, anyone have a 240 they want to loan out to a 17 yr old to trash for a week???? j/k
Ryan

The thing about the w123s are the window sill is in the perfect spot to let you rest your arm out the window. That's a major selling point for me :)

I've noticed that on German cars (VW, MB, Audi, BMW) that the way the doors are designed they favor having the window down and the arm out. On my Brother's Saturn (a stickshift, but not a very driver oriented car) the window sill is too far away and too low to be very useful.


If I had a 240D with a 4 speed and manual everything (sunroof, windows, climate control, the steering and brakes are power by default) I'd be truely happy. If I could get my hands on a 4 or 5 speed out of a 300D and the corresponding drivetrain components then I'd be sticking all that in my 300D. I think on my trip to Germany this summer I'll be looking into that :D


EDIT: why'd I post this?!?!?!?

well i think this is going to boil down to driver preferance. I know i just couldn't stand a slower car, i like to be able to know i can out-accelerate the car next to me if i wanted to, most the time i cant do that with my SD, and knowing every car on the road can out acccelerate me without even trying(240d) would just bug me. Dont know how to explain it other than that. I really want a 190e 2.6 with a 5spd, that would be my perfect benz right now :D However, perhaps it's good that i cant out-accelerate other cars, it could keep my traffic tickets down, as i never bother to try to beat someone off the line- i already know who will lose......
Ryan

Ryan, there really isn't any need to out accelerate people in the first place. You already drive a Diesel so I doubt that is a major concern.


Think of a 240D this way: A lot of people think old school VW Beetles are neat and would love to drive them. A VW Beetle though is just as slow as a 240D (possibly slower). Y'all are Stereotyping the 240D as the slowest thing on earth just because it's an economical Diesel.

well i'm gonna have to eat my own words here and say i was wrong. Thinking about it, the very first car i drove by myself was a 95 honda passport 4cyl 5spd. That thing was a dog, a big, heavy sport-ute withe a tiny little four banger, and the 5spd made it fun. Also, thinking about it, the century was front wheel drive, which is much better for a novice driver in the rain/low traction conditions. Even though the SD isn't over powered by any means, the first time i drove it in really slick rain i fishtailed it quite bad, and i wasn't expecting it at all. Luckily, it was at nightime with no one else on the road. After that, i had fun doing it on purpose! :D (safely, with no one else around, and i havn't since i actually got GOOD tires....). But since the 240d is rear wheel drive, and it's a 5 spd, i can see why that would make a great first car. it would be connected to the road yet not fast enough/powerfull enough to get you into trouble. I still would take my SD over the 240D, but i see all your point. Yes, i'm an indicisive 17 yr old with no life other than to bug you guys out of your mind- i know this
Ryan