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  #1  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:56 PM
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Driving without a fan belt.

Hi

I was driving the 240D on the freeway last Friday, when suddenly the alternator bearings froze up and shredded my fan belt.
I kept driving at about 65 mph, expecting the engine to overheat soon.
To my surprise the temperature only rose to about 95° C.
So I kept driving for 50 Miles until I hit Las Vegas city traffic and had to slow down.
Then at once the temperature climbed to 110° C and I had to shut the engine of.

At a speed of about 60 mph there is enough air flow through the radiator to spin the fan and the water pump fast enough to keep the engine temperature in acceptable limits.

I also found that the heater didn't work.
The water pump didn't spin fast enough to force the coolant through the heater core.

Nice to know that you can drive this old Diesels without a fan belt, as long as you drive fast enough.

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76 240 D. Bought in 1998 for $25.
85 300D. Got it for free with a bad engine. ( Sold )
60 Unimog 404. What was left of it, was given to me. Now powerd by 617A.
88 560 SEL. Bought without engine and trans. Now powerd by 617A.
67 250 SE. Cuope. For resto or sale.
64 220SE. For resto.
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  #2  
Old 03-19-2013, 10:09 PM
pawoSD's Avatar
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Amazing. That means they don't technically need electricity OR belts to run

EMP Attack Approved for sure!

I have a feeling that would not work on the 5 cylinders, the heat production is quite a bit higher....especially on the turbo engines.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
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  #3  
Old 03-19-2013, 10:14 PM
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Yeah wouldn't work on a 300D, only on the 240D because they don't have a fan clutch.
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1979 280CE 225,200 miles
1985 300D Turbo 264,000 miles
1976 240D 190,000 miles
1979 300TD 220,000

GONE but not forgotten
1976 300D 195,300 miles
1983 300D Turbo 175,000 miles

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  #4  
Old 03-19-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79Mercy View Post
Yeah wouldn't work on a 300D, only on the 240D because they don't have a fan clutch.
That problem could be solved with a shoe lace.
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  #5  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:00 PM
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I don't think the clutch is the reason it wouldn't work on a turbo motor... I think it's the MASSIVE amount of heat the motor produces pushing the taller diff.

LV is pretty flat too, so the 240 cruising at 60 on flat ground likely has little heat produced.
the reason you had no heat was the WP was not turning much if any at all.
actually, I think the wp would be turning backwards without the motor. the heat likely was moving thermally, not the wp pushing it.
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My drivers:
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  #6  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
That problem could be solved with a shoe lace.
yeah, but velcro shoes are cool...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #7  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:31 PM
pawoSD's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
I don't think the clutch is the reason it wouldn't work on a turbo motor... I think it's the MASSIVE amount of heat the motor produces pushing the taller diff.

LV is pretty flat too, so the 240 cruising at 60 on flat ground likely has little heat produced.
the reason you had no heat was the WP was not turning much if any at all.
actually, I think the wp would be turning backwards without the motor. the heat likely was moving thermally, not the wp pushing it.
I actually doubt a 617 turbo would be making all that much more heat in the same conditions, it would be getting within 2-3mpg of the 240.....so thats a minimal amount more fuel so not that much more heat. However, I bet its enough that it would eventually overheat. The 240 operates below that tipping point.

Ambient air temp would play a role also.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:34 PM
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Doesn't the auxilliary pump push any coolant thru the heater core without the water pump?
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Doesn't the auxilliary pump push any coolant thru the heater core without the water pump?
It would....but its not all that strong, I bet it would have minimal flow-effect with the main pump being non-operational.....never know though, might be just enough to keep the temp out of the red zone depending on ambient temp etc...

It would also stop working once the battery was toasted in this scenario.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2013, 01:19 AM
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I think this is an example of ram air effect.

At 60 mph (+) you have lots of nice air pushing its way into the engine compartment.

At lower road speeds you need your water pump.

I'm glad you posted this 1960mog - yet another nail in the coffin of the "don't remove your mechanical fan" crew.
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  #11  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79Mercy View Post
Yeah wouldn't work on a 300D, only on the 240D because they don't have a fan clutch.
Not so.
I am running a 300D 6 blade fan and fan clutch in my 240.
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76 240 D. Bought in 1998 for $25.
85 300D. Got it for free with a bad engine. ( Sold )
60 Unimog 404. What was left of it, was given to me. Now powerd by 617A.
88 560 SEL. Bought without engine and trans. Now powerd by 617A.
67 250 SE. Cuope. For resto or sale.
64 220SE. For resto.
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Doesn't the auxilliary pump push any coolant thru the heater core without the water pump?
The old 240 D's don't have a auxiliary pump.
__________________

76 240 D. Bought in 1998 for $25.
85 300D. Got it for free with a bad engine. ( Sold )
60 Unimog 404. What was left of it, was given to me. Now powerd by 617A.
88 560 SEL. Bought without engine and trans. Now powerd by 617A.
67 250 SE. Cuope. For resto or sale.
64 220SE. For resto.
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:27 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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If the engine is warm enough to need cooling the fan clutch should engage I would think. also the air passively turning the fan would still turn it the same direction, I believe.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:46 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
If the engine is warm enough to need cooling the fan clutch should engage I would think. also the air passively turning the fan would still turn it the same direction, I believe.
Agreed, that would make a ton of noise/impede air flow/cause engine drag if when the engine was moving the fan it was opposite to what the natural air stream was trying to do.
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
I actually doubt a 617 turbo would be making all that much more heat in the same conditions, it would be getting within 2-3mpg of the 240.....so thats a minimal amount more fuel so not that much more heat. However, I bet its enough that it would eventually overheat. The 240 operates below that tipping point.

Ambient air temp would play a role also.
I'm not sure about this.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think it's any additional effort so much as the turbo itself which is producing the extra heat.....

I think the 617 NA could pull this off as well. I've seen my temperature plummet when going downhill in gear when all is well.

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