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-   -   Several troubles after transmission change. (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=336553)

Knuckleballerr 03-26-2013 05:30 PM

Several troubles after transmission change.
 
I'm running into numerous issues after having changed a transmission on a 84 300sd.

Firstly, there is this AWFUL vibration that feels like I have square rims or a flat tire. I had to disable the ebrake on the back left tire (drivers side) because it locked up. Yet I'm still having this problem. Its not a subtle vibration but a horrible "cars about to explode vibration" from approx 5 mpg to 40's.. then calms down at roughly 50. Tranny seems to shift fine and i'm not having any problems as far as that.

The transmission dipstick tube isn't down flush, and the fluid is "milky" because (i believe) the transmission is sucking air in. Since the bolt is nicked, i plan on applying epoxy for the problem and of course a flush. May this be the vibration issue i'm noticing?

The second issue is I had the air intake off and exhaust pipe off as well. After driving around to test the tranny, it suddenly got VERY loud. Like a truck on steroids loud. Why is this so? I noticed the oil got very low because it leaked out of where the air intake would be. I'm told by several people this isn't much of a problem, but I wanted to make sure.

Mölyapina 03-26-2013 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckleballerr (Post 3120728)
I'm running into numerous issues after having changed a transmission on a 84 300sd.

Firstly, there is this AWFUL vibration that feels like I have square rims or a flat tire. I had to disable the ebrake on the back left tire (drivers side) because it locked up. Yet I'm still having this problem. Its not a subtle vibration but a horrible "cars about to explode vibration" from approx 5 mph to 40's.. then calms down at roughly 50. Tranny seems to shift fine and i'm not having any problems as far as that.

Ouch. Are you sure that the drivetrain (driveshaft/transmission/engine especially) is all hooked up correctly? Is the flex disc dead? Differential mounts? Does the vibration coincide with a shift into fourth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckleballerr (Post 3120728)
The transmission dipstick tube isn't down flush, and the fluid is "milky" because (i believe) the transmission is sucking air in. Since the bolt is nicked, i plan on applying epoxy for the problem and of course a flush. May this be the vibration issue i'm noticing?

Milky fluid might indicate coolant leaking into the transmission oil cooler (Bad! Bad! Bad!). I would definitely try to figure that out as soon as possible -- these transmissions are extremely sensitive, such that Mercedes-Benz says that one should only use leather to wipe the dipstick, since fibers might escape from cloth and attack the transmission. In the same vein, I believe that a transmission flush is not recommended, but I am not sure of this**. I would chalk this up as the source of the shaking problem, but I have never heard of a transmission producing horrible vibration on the way out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckleballerr (Post 3120728)
The second issue is I had the air intake off and exhaust pipe off as well. After driving around to test the tranny, it suddenly got VERY loud. Like a truck on steroids loud. Why is this so? I noticed the oil got very low because it leaked out of where the air intake would be. I'm told by several people this isn't much of a problem, but I wanted to make sure.

Have you checked that the exhaust pipe has not loosened in some way? I assume that the noise has not coincided with the vibration, and that you never actually ran the engine with low oil.

**Can someone back me up/refute me?

Knuckleballerr 03-26-2013 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna (Post 3120745)
Ouch. Are you sure that the drivetrain (driveshaft/transmission/engine especially) is all hooked up correctly? Is the flex disc dead? Differential mounts? Does the vibration coincide with a shift into fourth?

Have you checked that the exhaust pipe has not loosened in some way? I assume that the noise has not coincided with the vibration, and that you never actually ran the engine with low oil.

**Can someone back me up/refute me?

As far as I can tell, the drivetrain is hooked up correctly and flex disks/differential mounts seems fine? I'm not at all sure about it being correlated with a shift into fourth.. it seems to begin right away; as soon as I go a half decent speed.. say.. 10 mph?

My first assumption was that the exhaust pipe loosened and I checked it. It has no play and appears to be mounted just fine. It sounds terrible until I rev it, at which point it sounds passable.

Speaking of transmissions ~ Supposing a transmission never had its fluid changed.. (or seldom has) would it be wise to change the fluid or to leave it in for gripping to prevent slipping?

Volker 03-26-2013 10:59 PM

it sounds like serious balance issue

maybe unbalanced driveshaft, or issue with giubos

Did you take off driveshaft on both sides? Try taking it off and putting it on 180 degrees different.

Mölyapina 03-27-2013 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckleballerr (Post 3120916)
As far as I can tell, the drivetrain is hooked up correctly and flex disks/differential mounts seems fine? I'm not at all sure about it being correlated with a shift into fourth.. it seems to begin right away; as soon as I go a half decent speed.. say.. 10 mph?

My first assumption was that the exhaust pipe loosened and I checked it. It has no play and appears to be mounted just fine. It sounds terrible until I rev it, at which point it sounds passable.

Speaking of transmissions ~ Supposing a transmission never had its fluid changed.. (or seldom has) would it be wise to change the fluid or to leave it in for gripping to prevent slipping?

Sorry for any confusion; I was asking if the shaking disappears when it shifts into fourth.

What Volker says is what I had in the back of my mind -- I'm just curious why the shakes would disappear at high speed.

You should absolutely change the fluid -- there is junk in the old transmission fliud (tiny metal flakes etc.) that are slowly eating your transmission up. Change the filter along with it.

Are the exhaust pipe gaskets new? Our Corolla wasn't making nearly as much noise as yours from your description -- we had an exhaust gasket leak -- but the noise disappeared under load.

Mölyapina 03-27-2013 10:09 AM

Here's another one: have you done the brakes recently?

Stretch 03-27-2013 10:47 AM

Here are my impressions =>

1) If you have a milky white / pink transmission fluid then there is probably water contamination. You need to confirm this ASAP because if you have a way of returning the transmission you have just fitted and getting your money back do so.

Water in a transmission causes dreadful damage.

If you want to see pictures of water damage in a 722.303 have a look at the pictures in this thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/323259-722-303-bits-photo-shoot.html

2) Vibration could be something as "simple" as a poorly aligned prop shaft - did you match up the marks? - but with water in a transmission it could be rusted bearings - it could almost be anything corrosion related in there - nightmare.

3) As for transmission flushes - I'm one of the few here of the opinion that a "flush" is really a placebo effect for an anxious owner...

...I mean a flush must be better than a simple fluid change right? Bollocks! There's no way a flush will remove years of grit grime and **** from a valve body / actuator - hydraulic systems are not high flow systems - how can it flush? Where will it flush to? (Take a look at the pictures in the thread linked above and tell me where it all goes if you don't believe me)

Knuckleballerr 03-27-2013 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna (Post 3121084)
Here's another one: have you done the brakes recently?

After I put the transmission in; it wouldn't move because the back tire on the drivers side was locked up. (In fact, the brake light is still on, only holding up on the e-brake disables it.) I couldn't get the e-brake on that tire to disengage, so I took out that gearbit? (i suppose you'd call it?) and knocked down the plates on that tire only.

Knuckleballerr 03-27-2013 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch (Post 3121098)
Here are my impressions =>

1) If you have a milky white / pink transmission fluid then there is probably water contamination. You need to confirm this ASAP because if you have a way of returning the transmission you have just fitted and getting your money back do so.

Water in a transmission causes dreadful damage.

If you want to see pictures of water damage in a 722.303 have a look at the pictures in this thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/323259-722-303-bits-photo-shoot.html

2) Vibration could be something as "simple" as a poorly aligned prop shaft - did you match up the marks? - but with water in a transmission it could be rusted bearings - it could almost be anything corrosion related in there - nightmare.

3) As for transmission flushes - I'm one of the few here of the opinion that a "flush" is really a placebo effect for an anxious owner...

...I mean a flush must be better than a simple fluid change right? Bollocks! There's no way a flush will remove years of grit grime and **** from a valve body / actuator - hydraulic systems are not high flow systems - how can it flush? Where will it flush to? (Take a look at the pictures in the thread linked above and tell me where it all goes if you don't believe me)

A. How can I confirm rusted bearings?

B. What about transmission cleaners like "Seafoam transtune". I wouldn't expect a miracle out of it, but perhaps it would really clear some of that gunk out. Not just this transmission; but any old MB diesel tranny.

C. Whats your opinion of actually changing the fluid? I keep hearing that its best to leave the fluid alone so that the transmission can actually grip when shifting. But I feel like this is terrible advice.

whunter 03-27-2013 12:54 PM

Confused
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckleballerr (Post 3120728)
I'm running into numerous issues after having changed a transmission on a 84 300sd.

Firstly, there is this AWFUL vibration that feels like I have square rims or a flat tire. I had to disable the ebrake on the back left tire (drivers side) because it locked up. Yet I'm still having this problem. Its not a subtle vibration but a horrible "cars about to explode vibration" from approx 5 mpg to 40's.. then calms down at roughly 50. Tranny seems to shift fine and i'm not having any problems as far as that.

The transmission dipstick tube isn't down flush, and the fluid is "milky" because (i believe) the transmission is sucking air in. Since the bolt is nicked, i plan on applying epoxy for the problem and of course a flush. May this be the vibration issue i'm noticing?

The second issue is I had the air intake off and exhaust pipe off as well. After driving around to test the tranny, it suddenly got VERY loud. Like a truck on steroids loud. Why is this so? I noticed the oil got very low because it leaked out of where the air intake would be. I'm told by several people this isn't much of a problem, but I wanted to make sure.

Please call me, there are too many possible causes "without much more data".


.

Stretch 03-27-2013 12:59 PM

Here are my answers to your questions - but you really need to confirm whether you have got water contamination in the transmission or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckleballerr (Post 3121178)
A. How can I confirm rusted bearings?
...

You'd have to take it to bits to be 100% sure - they will eventually feel as rough as a badger's arse though
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckleballerr (Post 3121178)
...
B. What about transmission cleaners like "Seafoam transtune". I wouldn't expect a miracle out of it, but perhaps it would really clear some of that gunk out. Not just this transmission; but any old MB diesel tranny.
...

The only parts that I think will benefit from some sort of cleaner / flushing are the parts where there is flow. If for example you had really grotty fluid and you wanted to clean out the torque converter then this kind of thing might help so long as you drained the system...

...much like doing a fluid change (!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckleballerr (Post 3121178)
...

C. Whats your opinion of actually changing the fluid? I keep hearing that its best to leave the fluid alone so that the transmission can actually grip when shifting. But I feel like this is terrible advice.

What does Larry Bible say about engine oil changes? (Answer - often and hot - or something like that!)

One of the many things you can do for any transmission is to change the fluid and the filter regularly. In my climate (very wet and damp) I think on an infrequently used vehicle once a year wouldn't be a bad thing even though you'd probably never be any where near the recommended driven distance - but that's much much more frequently than what most people would consider. I've even seen threads where people think that changing your brake fluid once a year is over kill => not where I live it isn't!

Stretch 03-27-2013 01:05 PM

You need to confirm whether you have a water contaminated transmission or not!
 
I think you are wasting your time chasing vibration trouble if you have just fitted a water contaminated transmission.

No amount of flushing / hoping / praying / wishful thinking will remove water from a transmission.

The transmission fluid and water will combine to form an emulsion. The emulsion will stick to the parts within the transmission. It will not come out. The emulsion will encourage corrosion - the transmission will die.

Mölyapina 03-27-2013 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter (Post 3121200)
Please call me, there are too many possible causes "without much more data".

You should absolutely call Roy. He's one of the best.

whunter 03-27-2013 10:24 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch (Post 3121206)
I think you are wasting your time chasing vibration trouble if you have just fitted a water contaminated transmission.

No amount of flushing / hoping / praying / wishful thinking will remove water from a transmission.

The transmission fluid and water will combine to form an emulsion. The emulsion will stick to the parts within the transmission. It will not come out. The emulsion will encourage corrosion - the transmission will die.

Agreed.

But if the transmission is critically low on fluid, foaming and shake/shiver is a symptom.


.

Mölyapina 03-27-2013 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter (Post 3121200)
Please call me, there are too many possible causes "without much more data".

You should absolutely call Roy. He's one of the best -- he has more years of experience than I have of life :).


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