MB 616 diesel powered Astro build - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vstech · #31 04-13-2013, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I too had the Astro bug, and enjoyed being bitten. I bought an '88, and then a '99. Both blue, and both new from the dealer. The '88 was wrecked (rollover), and I gave the '99 to my brother with a bad trans. He fixed the trans and then sold it. As far as I know, it's still on the road (was sold AFTER the Cash for Clunkers was over). They are great vehicles, and I would have one again if it was a Diesel. Someone ought to put a Diesel in one, That would be cool!

there are several who have put in 6.2's and 6.5's (I don't see how... MAN that doghouse is tight! )
the upright position of the 61x motor makes this difficult as does the front sump oil pan...
a 602 would make a nice powerplant... since the engine sits at an angle, and the valve cover is 1/4 as high AND it does not have to be serviced regularly due to the hydraulic valves... it's more powerfull also!!!

JB3 · #32 04-13-2013, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

there are several who have put in 6.2's and 6.5's (I don't see how... MAN that doghouse is tight! )
the upright position of the 61x motor makes this difficult as does the front sump oil pan...
a 602 would make a nice powerplant... since the engine sits at an angle, and the valve cover is 1/4 as high AND it does not have to be serviced regularly due to the hydraulic valves... it's more powerfull also!!!

did you read that thread where a guy somehow jammed a 5.9 Cummins in an AWD astro? it was nuts, he extended the doghouse something like a foot and a half, and had to brace/reinforce the frame as the weight of the huge Cummins motor and matching trans actually caused it to splay out.

you are not the first person to say the 602, IMO it would definitely fit and easier as well. I just love these old cast iron heads and blocks clattering along.

EDIT-
Here it is-
Unfortunately, a huge number of pics are missing!
http://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=9217

pic of it-

vstech · #33 04-13-2013, 02:29 PM

... wow.
um, it'd be easier to put the astro body on the dodge frame...

JB3 · #34 04-13-2013, 03:39 PM

so here are the radiators compared- MB on the left. The ports are in the right place apart from the difference of side to side vs up and down flow.

Amazingly, the stock astro upper hose fits perfectly if you cut off about 2 inches. The stock Mercedes lower hose fits with about 4 inches removed. There might be a reference issue with the fan for the lower hose, and Im missing a lower plastic shroud that I definitely need that should solve that problem. The fans almost fits in the shroud correctly, just about 1 inch over to the passenger side. Also I had to trim a one inch strip off the upper shroud to clear the power steering pump

cooling system almost completely hooked up-

the only thing left is this rear port that needs to go to the heater core. The plan is to fabricate a pipe passage that bolts to the top of the valve cover and gets the coolant line past the turbo exhaust area without getting too close-

Excellent development on the throttle. Due to some amazing coincidence, or just a standard hole size that all automakers make for these things, the astro throttle cable fits right in perfectly to the Mercedes cruise control cable attachment. As if it were made for it. Some heavy modification to the throttle will need to take place here, as the distance is quite a bit different for cable throw, but I can use the mercedes bracket for the custom mod

Stretch · #35 04-13-2013, 05:21 PM

Why bother with any of the stuff on top of the rocker cover? Why not connect straight to the IP - I'm guessing you're going to install an automatic transmission...

...fast idle could be rigged directly to the IP too just put a spring at that connection so that the fast idle knob can't yank the cable too far at WOT

JB3 · #36 04-13-2013, 06:27 PM

ok, Ive taken care of the cooling system and its all hooked up ready to test. I had this steel coolant pipe on the shelf, and I made some brackets for it to fit the valve cover-

How it looks installed-

Meanwhile, fitted the turbo. For the first time, the fact that this is a van came home to be big time. The turbo is really heavy and difficult to install from this angle, and the edges of the hatch might as well be a knife! The good news is that if fits in the space nearly perfectly, the bad news is that an exhaust pipe wont. Ill have to modify the hatch/body a slight amount to get the clearance I need for the downpipe.

JB3 · #37 04-13-2013, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Why bother with any of the stuff on top of the rocker cover? Why not connect straight to the IP - I'm guessing you're going to install an automatic transmission...

...fast idle could be rigged directly to the IP too just put a spring at that connection so that the fast idle knob can't yank the cable too far at WOT

you have guessed in error sir.

This swap is using a non WC T5 5-speed overdrive.

To your other comment, thats not a bad idea. Either way, I need some kind of fixed point to pull on the throttle lever of the injection pump, but this gives me an interesting idea. If I change the angle of that square hole so its facing down and remove all the plungers and whatnot, I might be able to connect the astro cable directly to the injection pump, the distance seems similar. Ill have to test it

ROLLGUY · #38 04-14-2013, 01:48 AM

If you were to remove the stainless steel flex pipe between the turbo and the down pipe mounting flange (use one of the clamps to hold both halves together), it should give you enough clearance for the stock down pipe. You will need to modify the bracket, but I am sure you can handle that...Rich

Stretch · #39 04-14-2013, 01:58 AM

Sorry I meant to say NOT installing an automatic - that was in my head anyway even though I didn't write it...

The only reason I can think of having the stuff on the rocker cover is for an automatic transmission - vacuum valve connection and Bowden cable / rod linkage etc

####

How about using the back plate of the governor as a mounting point for a 1mm thick custom made mounting bracket for the new linkage? Slightly longer screws - through the new bracket - through the existing back cover (don't remove!) - into the governor housing. You should have enough space between the oil filter housing and the IP / governor on an OM616. It shouldn't be as cramped as on the turbo OM617...

ROLLGUY · #40 04-14-2013, 02:05 AM

I like how you modified the manifolds to work with the 4 cylinder. One of my projects was going to be a 616 turbo 240D. I was planning to use 617 turbo pistons and rods, and somehow make the piston oilers work as well. I was also researching how to add the extra fuel (616 IP not made for a turbo), and I think an ALDA can be added in place of the ADA. I have not found anyone that has tried it, but maybe that will be you! The other option would be to use the back half of the 617 pump with the front of the 616. That would involve the services of an IP shop, and would probably be expensive. You will also need a turbo oil filter stand, and the oil feed tube. The turbo oil drain tube will be a challenge as well. You could just drill and tap pipe threads in the upper pan for a barbed fitting, and just use a rubber hose with hose clamps. I am sure you are not the first to try this, so you probably already have thought about all this anyway. The turboing (is that a word?) of a 616 could be an entire thread by itself, as there is much information to be shared and had on just that part of your project alone. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep the photos coming as well (we like photos!)...Rich

Stretch · #41 04-14-2013, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I like how you modified the manifolds to work with the 4 cylinder. One of my projects was going to be a 616 turbo 240D. I was planning to use 617 turbo pistons and rods, and somehow make the piston oilers work as well. I was also researching how to add the extra fuel (616 IP not made for a turbo), and I think an ALDA can be added in place of the ADA. I have not found anyone that has tried it, but maybe that will be you! The other option would be to use the back half of the 617 pump with the front of the 616. That would involve the services of an IP shop, and would probably be expensive. You will also need a turbo oil filter stand, and the oil feed tube. The turbo oil drain tube will be a challenge as well. You could just drill and tap pipe threads in the upper pan for a barbed fitting, and just use a rubber hose with hose clamps. I am sure you are not the first to try this, so you probably already have thought about all this anyway. The turboing (is that a word?) of a 616 could be an entire thread by itself, as there is much information to be shared and had on just that part of your project alone. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep the photos coming as well (we like photos!)...Rich

Do you know that AMG made a turbo OM616?

Once and for all the answer to the did AMG do diesels for the w123 - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum

ROLLGUY · #42 04-14-2013, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Do you know that AMG made a turbo OM616?

Once and for all the answer to the did AMG do diesels for the w123 - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum

Quite interesting, but those of us thinking of turboing a 616 want to do it "on the cheap". I don't have the money that AMG has to put into the tooling and R&D to produce something like this. If I was to turbo a 616 (my still do it), I would definitely try to do it right (piston oilers, turbo pistons and rods, turbo valves, turbo anything else that will make the engine last). I don't think that just fabbing a turbo on a 616 will be good for it internally. I believe it would not last long without the turbo specific parts/systems that are designed into the 617 turbo engine.

Stretch · #43 04-14-2013, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

Quite interesting, but those of us thinking of turboing a 616 want to do it "on the cheap". I don't have the money that AMG has to put into the tooling and R&D to produce something like this. If I was to turbo a 616 (my still do it), I would definitely try to do it right (piston oilers, turbo pistons and rods, turbo valves, turbo anything else that will make the engine last). I don't think that just fabbing a turbo on a 616 will be good for it internally. I believe it would not last long without the turbo specific parts/systems that are designed into the 617 turbo engine.

Another FYI =>

I've just mentioned you here!!! =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/337482-just-bought-another-diesel-engine.html#post3130782

JB3 · #44 04-17-2013, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

If you were to remove the stainless steel flex pipe between the turbo and the down pipe mounting flange (use one of the clamps to hold both halves together), it should give you enough clearance for the stock down pipe. You will need to modify the bracket, but I am sure you can handle that...Rich

You and deliveryvalve both had the same notion, definitely works! Makes plenty of room. I need to rig something up, looking for 45% pipe to make a custom down pipe. Pic below (soon)

JB3 · #45 04-17-2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Sorry I meant to say NOT installing an automatic - that was in my head anyway even though I didn't write it...

The only reason I can think of having the stuff on the rocker cover is for an automatic transmission - vacuum valve connection and Bowden cable / rod linkage etc

####

How about using the back plate of the governor as a mounting point for a 1mm thick custom made mounting bracket for the new linkage? Slightly longer screws - through the new bracket - through the existing back cover (don't remove!) - into the governor housing. You should have enough space between the oil filter housing and the IP / governor on an OM616. It shouldn't be as cramped as on the turbo OM617...

Another awesome idea, Ill look into this. The astro throttle comes in from the passenger side of the engine area, and I may have a reference problem with the hatch going direct back, but maybe if I did a 45 degree pointing over to the valve cover, It would fit nicely!