Looking at a wagon - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rstl99 · #1 04-18-2013, 06:40 AM

Hi folks,
A W123 300TD has come up for sale (again) near me. I saw it in summer 2011 and made an offer on it (2500 or 3000, he was asking over 4), but the seller decided to keep it. He's now putting it up for sale again, as he realizes he has no need for it. He's owned it almost all its life, and cared for it well, so it's almost a one owner car. There are tons of records with it, that I haven't looked at yet. From memory:

- Car hasn't seen salt in last 20 years, and is solid as far as I could tell (it's not a rust-bucket, and believe me I've seen a few of those)
- Up until 2 years ago, car was used to drive down to Florida every winter, so spent the winters down there.
- Rear hatch has had some rust issues so will likely need repair or replacement.
- Some body panels were repainted over the years (dents, scratches) so although the car looks good, there are differences of shade here and there.
- Engine had an expensive top-end rebuild some years ago because of lower compression in two cylinders
- Transmission was rebuilt by MB mechanic a couple of years ago because it had started slipping
- Front end recently renewed, lots of new parts
- Rear leveling suspension recently repaired (had started to sag a bit I think)
- Interior shows some wear (split driver seat, cracked dash) but this was a well-used family car for years.
- Engine rear seal leaks, and there appears to be a leak at the front too.
- I'm told the ACC works, and AC "needs recharging".
- Car drove well on the test drive, no overheating, good acceleration, felt tight and stable.
- Tach doesn't work
- Oil pressure between 1 and 2 at idle, pegs out instantly when press on the gas.
- Car would be sold with safety certificate.

These W123 diesel wagons only come up once in a blue moon in these parts. I own a 240D so have some familiarity with that kind of car and am a DIYer, but obviously realize the 300TD is a more complex beast than my rather sparse auto 240D. I was thinking of selling the 240D because I'm not using it much. The 300TD appeals to me for the utilitarian aspect (hauling stuff to-from cottage, estate sales, etc.) and better acceleration and highway speed.

The leaking seals bother me, especially the rear, which I know is not easy to get at so not cheap to get repaired, if needed. Not sure how much one should worry about it, other than as a nuisance (drips on the driveway). Oil pressure is good, as stated above.

What do you think? Would $3000-$3500 be a reasonable offer in this condition?
Thanks.

vstech · #2 04-18-2013, 10:58 AM

what year is it?
is it a turbo?
does it have third row seating?
does it have cargo net or crossbars?
what color is it?
what lights and bumpers are on it?
I think more along the lines of 2K really...

the SLS is not a big deal to repair, as kits are out there to fix leaks and seals.

rstl99 · #3 04-18-2013, 11:07 AM

It's an 83
Yes it has turbo
I don't remember if it has 3rd row seating
No cargo nets or bars that I recall
It's red (see photo attached)
I seem to recall he had the euro lights in front

Good thing to know about SLS, I've read some people say it can be a big and expensive job to fix right.

$2K, well I suppose these wagons go for little money in some parts of this continent. I don't think he'll go that low on it.

Mölyapina · #4 04-18-2013, 11:18 AM

Around here, that is a $2000 car -- however, if they are so extremely rare there, maybe $3000 is an okay price. If it's the only truly rust-free wagon you've seen in six months that's under $5000, go for it!

Mölyapina · #5 04-18-2013, 11:40 AM

Also, how about a link to any ads?

Zacharias · #6 04-18-2013, 12:26 PM

As you used the term "safety certificate" it sounds like you are in Ontario.

US pricing patterns don't work consistently in Canada. Here in eastern Ontario/western Quebec, for example, these cars have no market whatsoever. If you can get $1500 for one selling you grab it and run.

The good news is that things seem to be much better in Southern Ontario.

You need to assess what the car is worth to you. To do that you really need to have it looked at by a qualified shop, and see it up on a hoist yourself, and then make your decision.

Even if you are in Southern Ontario, RUST is the question. You need to look at it underneath.

With tired paint, nonfunctional AC ('needs a recharge' means it needs a leak fixed) and the hatch issue, assuming the floor is intact, assuming nothing else major pressing, $2500 or $3k max if you like the car.

rstl99 · #7 04-18-2013, 01:03 PM

Thanks Zacharias. As you say, these cars seem to have little market value anymore. I don't even know what I could hope to get for my Definitely-Rust-Free 240D (Arizona car) with very nice interior, good mechanicals. It's one of the reasons I have decided to hang onto it these past 4-5 years, because I just can't bear to part with such a quality car for such a paltry sum. I assume it's the same reason this guy still has the wagon, because he couldn't find someone locally willing to pay the $4k he wanted for it. I can empathize with that, ideally he's probably looking for the kind of caring buyer that I would look for, if-when I sold mine, and not someone who's just going to beat it into the ground and to the scrapyard.

I can't rationalize keeping two W123's, so if I bought the wagon (more practical vehicle for me, for hauling stuff to the cottage, etc.) I would have to sell my 240D. I prefer the colour of mine (ivory), it's in nicer cosmetic shape (and doesn't drip oil on the driveway!), and the AC still works! However, an auto 240D is a little challenged in traffic, whereas a turbo 300 would be a bit better in that regard. It's this kind of internal debate I'm going through, plus there's the old adage "the devil you know...".

I'll probably go have another look at it, take it for a drive, see how I feel about it. Check out some of the paperwork. And then as you suggest get it on a hoist at my mechanic (who's worked on these cars in the past) and see what happens.

There seems to be a great jump between market value of beat-up tired specimens and pristine garage queens, and this one is probably closer to the former, even though it's been well maintained and has had a lot of good work done on it in recent years.

Orv · #8 04-18-2013, 01:33 PM

I'm in the US, so I can't comment too much on pricing, but of what you've described the rear seal is the only thing I'd really fret about. A couple things to look out for, though:

- The hatch rust is probably worse than you think; the rear window seal tends to leak and they rust from the inside. New rear window seals are around $300 I think; any parts unique to the wagon are expensive.

- Besides the usual spots (sills, fenders) check for rust in the rear floor pans and the spare tire well. Rear floor pan rust can compromise the structure of the rear subframe mounts if it gets too bad, and the undercoating can hide it. Spare tire well rust is not a structural concern, but it might give you room to talk him down.

Few cars can beat these wagons for hauling. I've put all kinds of stuff in (and on) mine, and the SLS lets it handle it with aplomb. One of the previous owners of mine was apparently a wooden boat builder who used it to haul lumber. It's the most luxurious pickup truck you'll ever own.

pj67coll · #9 04-18-2013, 01:41 PM

Here it's about a 4-6 K dollar car. If it's genuinely rust free go for it.

- Peter.

rstl99 · #10 04-18-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orv

- The hatch rust is probably worse than you think; the rear window seal tends to leak and they rust from the inside. New rear window seals are around $300 I think; any parts unique to the wagon are expensive.

- Besides the usual spots (sills, fenders) check for rust in the rear floor pans and the spare tire well. Rear floor pan rust can compromise the structure of the rear subframe mounts if it gets too bad, and the undercoating can hide it. Spare tire well rust is not a structural concern, but it might give you room to talk him down.

Few cars can beat these wagons for hauling. I've put all kinds of stuff in (and on) mine, and the SLS lets it handle it with aplomb. One of the previous owners of mine was apparently a wooden boat builder who used it to haul lumber. It's the most luxurious pickup truck you'll ever own.

Thanks.
I figured the hatch was worse than it looks, and the seller told me he regretted not picking up a good used one while he was still driving the car south for the winter. Not sure how easy it would be to source a used one and get it shipped...

When I last saw it 2 years ago, there was no rust in the trunk wells, and I couldn't see any under the carpets (though some rubber padding prevented seeing the actual floor boards). I suppose I could check by pressing from below when up on a lift, and feel any crunching or softness.

I used to own a 240 Volvo wagon and so appreciated the room in the back for hauling all kinds of stuff. I owned a Camry wagon after that but the HG went, sadly. The W123 wagon seems well designed to haul a variety of stuff inside. Even though I own a Dodge Ram 3/4 ton, it's got a slide-in camper semi-permanently mounted on the back, so would be nice to have a car for hauling some stuff.

Still mulling it over, the pros and cons of (1) buying it and trying to sell my 240D for a decent amount (2) selling the 240D and buying a more modern wagon (VW Tdi?) that can be driven year-round up here in Great White North. The old "head vs heart" internal debate...

Adriel · #11 04-18-2013, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rstl99

I used to own a 240 Volvo wagon and so appreciated the room in the back for hauling all kinds of stuff. I owned a Camry wagon after that but the HG went, sadly. The W123 wagon seems well designed to haul a variety of stuff inside. Even though I own a Dodge Ram 3/4 ton, it's got a slide-in camper semi-permanently mounted on the back, so would be nice to have a car for hauling some stuff.

Still mulling it over, the pros and cons of (1) buying it and trying to sell my 240D for a decent amount (2) selling the 240D and buying a more modern wagon (VW Tdi?) that can be driven year-round up here in Great White North. The old "head vs heart" internal debate...

I own a Volvo 245, and can tell you, the Mercedes can do WAY better. Not only do you then have S.L.S. but can remove the seat bottoms and gain enough to fit full height doors (80" here) and comfortably shut the hatch.

I say go for the wagen, as gives WAY more options, even those that come up in the future. Yes, I know a pain to sell a auto, I am trying to repair the Volvo so I can sell it. I wouldn't worry about the paint either.

Oh, and don't get some modern contraption. Stick with what you know and love. I have had modern autos and don't think they are as reliable especially because one can't do roadside repairs with all the plastic and VERY expensive specialty tools. I think that be even more critical in snow country, but then I am 26 and never been in snow fall. Seen it on the ground a few times, but that is it.

rstl99 · #12 04-18-2013, 06:23 PM

Thanks guys, I'll go have a look at it on Saturday and see if it "sings out to me". Look at some of the recent repair paperwork, take it for a good drive, try to reach a mutually acceptable price. It has to be worth it, because it's going to take some work on my part to sell my 240D auto, and some work to get this wagon sorted out. Cheers!

kerry · #13 04-18-2013, 06:41 PM

how many miles on it?

Skid Row Joe · #14 04-18-2013, 07:23 PM

That's an attractive color combo. $2,500 to $3,000 is where I'd be a buyer - if it's low-miles (less than 200K)

MBZ123 · #15 04-18-2013, 10:40 PM

^What he said on color and price.

Don't get bedazzled by the pitch. You state "almost all its life" and "almost a one owner." A million ways to interpret just your beginning paragraph. Its whole life in Ontario? In Canada? How bout N America? Is he the second owner or tenth? Besides, most people overvalue the one-owner fact. I've seen some pretty neglected vehicles sold by their original owners. Neither the exception or the rule in my experience. The point being is I'm a gambler who's obsessed with numbers and my money says you ain't getting the straight dope. Red flags everywhere. But, with only that info, three max. Or walk. Cast the net further out. You'll thank yourself.

^The moral: DUE DILIGENCE

Two most important being:

1) You're absolutely certain THERE IS NO RUST. Someone sometime said "where there's smoke..." If you can't be 100% on extent of rust get somebody who can.

2) How much motor oil is it using? You already confirmed it ISN'T leaking any fluids right? Confirm amount of blowby visually and with a filler cap test. If you don't have a clue, video and post. Will he allow YOU to test compression? With nothing to hide he will. And it will only cost you a handful of heat shields.

Better yet get at an inspection from an indie. Will it cost? Sure, everything does. The question is will it cost you lots more to buy something that isn't what you were told it was. Far too common. I get the impression from reading your posts this is your best option.

P.S. The "market" means #*CKALL! What market? Data is unreliable, therefore meaningless. The value it brings you is ultimately what it's worth. Need a little clarity? Just ask all those knuckleheads who payed 100k AND UP!

for run of the mill muscle cars back in '07. Now what's the "market" gotta say about that?

Same goes for receipts. Mostly irrelevant, but at least thumb through em since offered. Instead demand to see his registration slips for "almost all its life." Yes, I know the dealer writes your name in the box, but have you ever seen forged registration paperwork? Ahhh that reminds me, wanna see a couple reams of triplicate with the pretty little three-pointed letterhead? Hehe

MBZ123