Injection Timing Tools - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Diesel911 · #16 05-07-2013, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

That was Govert wasn't it (on BW)?

If so I've seen that - thanks. The system involved is essentially a glorified version of the A-B timing light method but with the engine running. It only measures mechanical positions of the parts within the IP and not the whole system (i.e. IP and injector) which would be a measurement of the point of delivery (which is what greazzer's system will do). As mentioned by qwerty this is a different thing from begin of delivery; so far other people on this forum have observed that when using this type of equipment point of delivery (NOT begin of delivery) is between 15 and 10 degrees before TDC.

The important part is the Timing in that chart is taken at 1000 rpms with the Engine running as opposed to the static A&B Light Timing.

Diesel911 · #17 05-07-2013, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwerty

It's not that simple. The FSM specifies the crankshaft angle for "start of delivery." The "pulse" occurs later.

X2
The thickness of the Fuel Injection Hard Line tubing and their length also makes a difference.
Maybe the Injector opeing pressure has an effect also.

Stretch · #18 05-08-2013, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

...Many versions of the Haynes for other cars are not that good, but the one they did for this car is actually quite good IMHO.

I beg to differ Larry. The engine section isn't too too bad but watch out for their conversions from Nm to old money - there are a few in there that are just plain wrong. I think the rest of the manual, however, is more or less emergency toilet paper. The FSM has clearer pictures is on line and is free...

Stretch · #19 05-08-2013, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

The important part is the Timing in that chart is taken at 1000 rpms with the Engine running as opposed to the static A&B Light Timing.

I agree that it is interesting that the measurements are made at 1000rpm and at a specific engine oil temperature - note that there are no corrections for timing device interaction at higher rpms <= that would be interesting to know about (that kind of information could help one forum member that I can think of who has a weird vibration problem) - but the values given are for the begin of delivery before TDC IP position rather than the true before TDC point of delivery aren't they?

In other words this data can't be used for the system that measures point of delivery - it can only be used for a weird obscure Mercedes special tool set up that measures the begin of delivery

Air&Road · #20 05-08-2013, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

I beg to differ Larry. The engine section isn't too too bad but watch out for their conversions from Nm to old money - there are a few in there that are just plain wrong. I think the rest of the manual, however, is more or less emergency toilet paper. The FSM has clearer pictures is on line and is free...

Hmm... and in what context was I complimenting the Haynes Manual? Oh yeah, it was the engine part, having to do with injection timing.

Diesel911 · #21 05-08-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

I agree that it is interesting that the measurements are made at 1000rpm and at a specific engine oil temperature - note that there are no corrections for timing device interaction at higher rpms <= that would be interesting to know about (that kind of information could help one forum member that I can think of who has a weird vibration problem) - but the values given are for the begin of delivery before TDC IP position rather than the true before TDC point of delivery aren't they?

In other words this data can't be used for the system that measures point of delivery - it can only be used for a weird obscure Mercedes special tool set up that measures the begin of delivery

I am going to ease out of this and say I don't know.

I have never used one of the Pulse type Timers so I can only go by what others have mentioned and what seems resonable to Me.

I believe a few Members own some version of that device and I have not read the comment on how it compares to the static Timing.

Someone that owns one of the Devices needs to do some testing and report back.

I can see the convenience of the Pulse Devices but I think for the owner of One Diesel Car the Drip Timing is entirely adequate.

Stretch · #22 05-09-2013, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

...
Someone that owns one of the Devices needs to do some testing and report back.

I can see the convenience of the Pulse Devices but I think for the owner of One Diesel Car the Drip Timing is entirely adequate.

There are several reports on this forum concerning dynamic timing...

I'll dig them out and start a new thread I think - for the situation where you are using non diesel fuels a dynamic timing device could indeed be an asset.

Stretch · #23 05-09-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

A Member from another Fourm posted the info in the pic below. You can look up the section number in that German Manual you have and see what is there for your Engine.

Also some where in the Manual it give the max amount of degrees the Timer will change the timing and at what rpm you reach that.

I got a chance today to look through the German FSM and I was wrong to assume that the signal is a fake one from the IP - it isn't. The data you posted in the screen shot is for point of delivery - I am really chuffed! Thanks for posting it - I feel that I've now got another hole in puzzle filled.

(I'm going to bung together all the information I've got so far on this subject in a new thread)