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  #1  
Old 05-30-2013, 07:22 PM
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Should I consider buying this car? 1978 300D

Talked to a guy today, about 50 miles from me, he has a 1978 merc 300D for sale. I could probably get this car for around $1200 or less.

176k on the ODO, he said maybe 200 on it actually. Something about the odometer sticking. Automatic transmission. The man he got it from was, he says, the original owner, an electrician he knows personally who took purportedly took good care of it. And the current owner knows him as they attend the same church.

The original owner had re-chromed the bumper about 10 years ago. I haven't seen it in person but the current owner did a reasonable and unsuspicious job of making it sound like a nice car. He said all the doors/windows work, the window seals aren't dry-rotted at all. He stated the carpet looks excellent but the drivers seat has a tear in it and has a cover on it in the photos. it was garage kept the majority of its life and he was driving it for a while but bought a new 2013 VW.

Stated the undercarriage is free of rust-- the only rust is in the 2 photos of the quarter panels. I don't like that, and I don't know how much it would cost to fix. He claimed to be unsure of the real condition of the A/C system, unfortunately.

His stated reasons for selling include limited time to restore it, a need for money and limited space, nothing particularly unscrupulous that I could tell.

He doesn't have document history or service records as far as I know.

For $1200-ish, I'm interested in taking the 50 minute trip to see this, and may go see it Saturday.

Any opinions and/or pointers on what to check and what to look out for would be appreciated.

Anyway, photos:








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  #2  
Old 05-30-2013, 08:11 PM
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I can speak from plenty of personal experience as my '78 cd has been my dd since i got it in 2005 from Virginia beach.

i'm sure this car has it's share of issues but,from the pictures, id say it looks to be in decent shape.

What is the geographic location of this car? those rust spots on the front 1/4s is a bit troubling. you are going to have to investigate thoroughly for rust.

wearing of things like the top of the steering wheel,the brake pedal,shifter knob and the driver seat are going to be a more telling sign of the vehicles mileage and use that the OD. Most if not all '78 MBz OD had stop by now if they havnt been repaired yet. Those wear spots look indicative of 200k miles in my opinion.

Pretty much every system in this year w123 is super simple and robust except for the Climate Control system! That little bundle of joy in the front left side of the engine bay is called the climate control servo. Its hella complex and prone to fail. There are several solution options out there if this one is bad but you never know... mine worked when i got it for a couple years b4 it blew up. i got the electronic upgrade and its been 100% since. if the climate control blows air and the temp wheel controls from hot to cold on command then it works.

Go for a test drive and see if it starts easily, shifts all gears, steers decent, brakes ok and shuts down when you turn off the key.

Don't know what exactly you are needing in an automobile. If your willing and able to take on a car that most definitely WILL have its share of issues and will certainly need frequent maintenance to keep on the road just know what your getting into here.

If this is a decently maintained example with minimal rust and good engine compression it could potentially have 200k miles left in it.

good luck
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former members
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1978 300CD "El Toro"
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  #3  
Old 05-30-2013, 08:37 PM
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if you end up buying it, for the love of god get rid of that lexus floormat! gross!
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:17 PM
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The car's located in northern Ohio. We use plenty of salt up here. I agree the rust is troubling. When you say investigate thoroughly, do you mean checking other places on the car, or trying to determine how extensive those 2 particular spots are?

I understand the maintenance issue. I think any used vehicle by the time it reaches 150k+ will have its share of issues that need addressed to keep it on the road.


Is there anything I should check in regards to the engine? I have no way of knowing if the engine was properly maintained-- I believe it was, but being unfamiliar with these vehicles, is there any particular tell-tale signs to look for?


Also, did the 78 engines come with a cast iron head? Any manufacturing oddities I should be aware of with these?
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  #5  
Old 05-30-2013, 09:20 PM
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Niiiiice color combination.
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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2013, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
Niiiiice color combination.
agreed
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2013, 09:34 PM
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Hmmm.. 35 winters in the rust belt is sure to take it's toll on this car. s That fact plus seeing that rust showing on the outside there throws up some red flag warnings for rust for me.

Your going to have to look all over the underside, under the carpets, underneath the trunk sides. All over. rusted fenders or floor pans is one thing. rusting of particular concern would be on frame parts or structural integrity areas.

The topic of rusted w123 is well documented on this forum for your research.

How the car starts and idles, how much and what color smoke, oil cap blow-by test can tell you some about the health of the engine right off the crank. A real compression test would tell you a lot more but that's not really something you can do on a test drive.

This forum loves videos. If you go to see the car and take a video documenting what you see then post it on here, you'll most likely get all the input you could want from the forum.
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former members
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  #8  
Old 05-30-2013, 09:43 PM
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W123 driveshaft bearing

Posted in the wrong spot! Please disregard...
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  #9  
Old 05-30-2013, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzarg View Post
The car's located in northern Ohio. We use plenty of salt up here. I agree the rust is troubling. When you say investigate thoroughly, do you mean checking other places on the car, or trying to determine how extensive those 2 particular spots are?

I understand the maintenance issue. I think any used vehicle by the time it reaches 150k+ will have its share of issues that need addressed to keep it on the road.


Is there anything I should check in regards to the engine? I have no way of knowing if the engine was properly maintained-- I believe it was, but being unfamiliar with these vehicles, is there any particular tell-tale signs to look for?


Also, did the 78 engines come with a cast iron head? Any manufacturing oddities I should be aware of with these?
All W123 diesels had cast-iron heads. Aluminum heads came in the next generation diesels in the W201 and W124.

Simple things to check is how easily it starts when cold and oil-pressure at idle after warm-up. I'd prefer hot-idle with at least 15 psi. In any case oil-pressure should rise quickly to max when accelerating.

Look under the car anyplace for cracks, bulges, swelling of the rubber undercoating, especially along the seam where the floors join the inner-sills & rockers. This means rust has infected the metal behind the undercoat. Inside, under the carpets, check for rust at the bases for the front seat legs and inner sills where the lower end of the front seatbelts are bolted.
(I once bought a rusty 240D where the front passenger seatbelt was only attached to carpet!)

If the car actually checks out to be pretty decent and you decide to buy it, I'd recommend replacing the rubber brake hoses and vacuum-pump ASAP if there's no recent maintenance history on those items.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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Last edited by Mark DiSilvestro; 05-30-2013 at 10:42 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-30-2013, 10:24 PM
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You need to look at the floor of that car from underneath, preferably under a hoist.

If it has that much rust in the lower fenders, it would be really unusual if does not have serious floor rot.

You cannot check the floors on these from inside the car as the floor is covered in sound-absorbing material. It can be completely rotten underneath that, but still look fine when you lift up the carpet mats.
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2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Last edited by Zacharias; 05-30-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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  #11  
Old 05-30-2013, 10:39 PM
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What shame about the rust. After buying two pigs in a poke I became experienced with the rust points on these babies. I would be shocked seeing that fender rustout that that the bottom of the firewall and the rocker sills aren't probably shot too. The prior poster was right. They put such thick rubber undercoating and nice soundproofing on top you have no idea how bad it is till you go to yank your seat back and fall through the floor. The rust would scare me away to be honest. Try yanking on the seat belt where it attaches to the rocker at the floor. A lot of times the rust eats its way up and you can see the metal flex as you pull on it. That's a good sign it's rusted through.That said I would totaly buy this car for the interior. Love the tobacco interior. Hard to find those in that good a shape with the batman head rests. I have also had a weak spot for the brownish interiors and the maple yellow paint.
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  #12  
Old 05-30-2013, 10:44 PM
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After fighting rust and losing on a 1981 VW Rabbit that I bought for $4k (sad how far it's fallen now) I agree, the rust scares me away from this one. Sad thing. Also the fact that my wife doesn't like it

I wish I knew how to do body work.


Is there an actual way to effectively prevent rust on these old cars? Hypothetically speaking, if you start with a rust free body, is there something you can do to a daily-winter-salt-snow driven vehicle that will make it last 20 years? That's my goal.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:55 PM
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Pass.....that's a 600$ car....possible 800$ if you realllllyyy want a project. You will need 2 new fenders, 2 new doors and a bumper....cheaper to replace then pay a body shop for the repair.....plus a repaint....there is no AC belt so the AC is dead....there is a new aluminium servo, so someone was working on the climate control that is a plus....also a crack free dash....seats will also need to be restuffed aka new seat pads and possible springs.....either a big project or a beater car.....either way not worth the asking...specially with no service history and dead speedo.....
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
Pass.....that's a 600$ car....possible 800$ if you realllllyyy want a project. You will need 2 new fenders, 2 new doors and a bumper....cheaper to replace then pay a body shop for the repair.....plus a repaint....there is no AC belt so the AC is dead....there is a new aluminium servo, so someone was working on the climate control that is a plus....also a crack free dash....seats will also need to be restuffed aka new seat pads and possible springs.....either a big project or a beater car.....either way not worth the asking...specially with no service history and dead speedo.....

++


After just having been on this forum a little bit, I knew I could count on you all to talk some sense into me.

Now, commence waiting for a nice mint 240D to fall into my lap. I wish I knew some rich old people who wanted to clear out their mercedes.
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  #15  
Old 05-30-2013, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzarg View Post
Is there an actual way to effectively prevent rust on these old cars? Hypothetically speaking, if you start with a rust free body, is there something you can do to a daily-winter-salt-snow driven vehicle that will make it last 20 years? That's my goal.
You cannot prevent rust on these cars. At best you fight to slow it down.

The w123 body design is from the 1970s. So was your Rabbit. Anything designed prior to the 1980s is an uphill battle where road salt is concerned.

Thorough annual oil spray underneath and in body cavities, keep it washed and out of heated garages in winter. When rust does start to appear, anywhere, jump on it with POR-15 or rustoleum, if underneath, or with touchups up top.

W123s have other problems as well. Window seals dry out and water can come in and get into the floor insulation, leaving it sitting wet -- thus the floor can rot from the inside out, from either the front or back or both (water travels to the rear floor). My 300td wagon came from Texas and the rear floor had to be patched, due to this.

Focus on the next decade.

We have a subforum for cars for sale, and people sometimes flag cars they see advertised. Buying from a reputable, veteran member here would be an excellent choice, if the planets align that way. By that I don't mean the guys who beam in here and make one or two posts, then start advertising cars and parts for sale.

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2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
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