New to working on cars - any advice welcome, lots of question - 1982 240d automatic - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ltima · #1 07-31-2013, 07:45 AM

First paragraph is mostly just me blabbing, sorry I am a ranter. Thank you in advance for any advice anyone has to give.

First I would like to start by saying, I don't know to much about cars at all. In fact even though I am 28 years old I have just gotten my drivers license. I had never really liked cars much, or that was true until I saw my first old diesel benz. They are so damn classy and beautiful, fell in love. That said I apologise if I use the wrong words to describe things here, I'm doing my best as a total novice.

I decided the place to start was reading everything I could about all sorts of problems other people have had with their 240d's I have also ordered the Haynes Manual and 1976-1985 Mercedes Benz 123 W123 Chassis Shop Workshop Service Repair Manual as well as chiton, 82 benz 240d manual. I really was not sure what one was best so I just got everything. Those should all be here in a few days, are there any other / better manuals to get? So the car is not in great condition, I can drive it. IT shakes a lot and I have located and found out that the engine mounts are total destroyed. Is it safe to drive the car like this? I have ordered new parts for that all ready.

Next, OIL CHANGING. So, is one kind of oil better than another? I'm in houston texas so I know I don't need to worry about it being cold. Also, I have read in a few places you want to change the oil hot? I'm a little scared to do this. I have only ever watched someone change the oil on a gas car once and though I have watched a view youtube videos and read some literature I know that when I saw someone change the oil on a gas car it got on them. I'm a bit nervous about melting off my flesh, any pro tips? I did see one video where they pumped the oil out vs draining it, is this as good? It seems like you would get more sediment out by draining, tho maybe not?

So I was able to locate one part of the car that was clearly broken. And I figure after changing the oil, which just seems like a good idea and the engine mounts I should get this bit repaired :

So I am not 100% sure but I think this might be a check valve? So here is the thing, this is an old car its not like I can go to generic auto part store and just get pieces right? Where are the best places to get parts from? Other than used or rebuilt pieces from the same model are there brands to avoid, or to go after? I did notice that when I was checking the cost of tie rods that the range was anywhere from $10.00 to $23.00. I need to get those to, but again I'm really worried I might buy sub quality parts If I just get the cheapest ones, but also I don't want to just buy the most expensive if its not actually better. Suggestions?

So Other than changing all the filters in everything, changing all the fluids, getting the car aligned, fixing anything bad with the suspension (other than tie rods I'm not sure what else to look at yet) remounting the engine and repairing anything I find that is obviously broken such as the picture above are there any general maintenance and care tips anyone has? Or things I should look at on the car that a person with no experience may over look?

thanks for any help / tips / suggestions anyone has to offer!

vstech · #2 07-31-2013, 09:44 AM

welcome to the forum!

vstech · #3 07-31-2013, 09:54 AM

oil, needs to be diesel rated.
MOST oil on the shelf is ONLY for gasoline engines, be sure you get oil that clearly states diesel.
DELO, Mobil, ROTELLA etc are great choices, there are others. I don't recommend synthetic on the older diesels, as they tend to use a lot of oil, and the soot load is too much for extended drain. keep in mind you will need almost 2 gallons of oil to change.
filters are fairly easy to come by, pep boys, and advance stock them.
most parts are on the shelf at most mcparts stores, and of course ANYTHING you need for the car can be ordered right here on this site, just click the mercedes name at the top of the page, and select your car!

I would not drive the car with broken motor mounts. and yes, brand matters.
get Genuine MB, or lemforder...
nothing else is worth your money.

as for changing it hot, it's no problem, the filter change is where most cars spill oil on you, and the MB filter is on top, so no spillage!
just loosen the drain plug, (you don't even need to lift the car!) and let it drain into the pan, and take off the two oil filter lid bolts, and lift the lid a bit to let it drain.

in addition to an oil change, you should order a valve cover gasket, and adjust your valve clearance. bent wrenches make the job very easy, lots of threads on here about it.
the best manual for the car is the MERCEDES factory shop manual. (FSM) it's no longer in print, but it's often found on ebay. you want the engine shop manual, there are manuals for nearly every part of the car.
you will HATE the chiltons manual, it sucks. the haynes is fairly well put together, but many specs are inaccurate.

vstech · #4 07-31-2013, 10:03 AM

in your picture, you have a broken vacuum hose. just get some generic vacuum hose, and pull the broken pieces off, and replace them. that green part is a vacuum orifice. it regulates flow to the transmission, it's fine, no need to replace it.

vstech · #5 07-31-2013, 10:05 AM

the next thing you are going to need is injector return line hose.
many have used weed eater fuel line, it is the same size, and it's transparent to see bubbles.
the original braided cloth hose is leaking on yours.

clacker · #6 07-31-2013, 10:48 AM

Something I learned in the past, if your engine mounts are failed and engine shakes badly, fix the problem BEFORE you replace the mounts, or the entire car will shake with new mounts until they fail again, most likely caused by the injection pump. There are lots of factors involved with the shakes, valve adjustment, injection pump timing, fuel injector spray/pop, timing chain stretch, fuel delivery timing, rack damper bolt, lots you can read up on here at the forum to educate yourself but no point replacing mounts if it shakes, you will not like the result! A properly running diesel (especially a 4 cylinder) is smooth at idle, like a coffee cup on the valve cover and not spilling smooth-the mounts come into play at start up and shut down mostly, not while running.
To fix your broken hose you need vacuum hose or fuel injector return line hose in 3.5X2mm OR 3.2x1.9mm either size is fine, most euro shops keep it or buy a couple meters here. It works on the injectors and on the vacuum hoses when you need to connect to hard plastic lines or run new lines. You will use it often until the car is up and perfect. You will have to fix that leak in order for the transmission to shift properly/engine shut off/vacuum locks to work etc. A mity vac tester also really helps in the tool box for working on these systems. Be sure to be gentle when removing the old parts, there is a plastic nipple running into the hose you don't want to break, use dental picks or hooks to try and loosen it.
For oil find something thick that is less likely to burn off, like 15w40 or 20w50 since your in a warm place. For sure diesel rated oil but it needs only CC or CD rating, not CJ-4 (the first "C" rating is diesel). You might have to consult with oil companies website to find which ones have the old rating, it is so obsolete not that most conform but few list it. CJ-4 is not really great for older engines, it has fewer additives/low ash for diesel particulate filters, not a concern here!
You can always try a fuel system flush or tune up in can to see if it helps your shakes, nothing much lost in trying like Lubro Moly diesel tune. Is the fuel in the tank really old/sitting a long time? Does it have diesel fuel in it or something else? (you might be surprised what some people call fuel), after the tune up in a can try running off a known fuel supply and see what happens (a small jar with fresh fuel) with a feed and return so you see what is coming out-a key to the mystery sometimes.
They are simple beasts in a modern world, but diesels can be tricky at times and you need patience to sort through it, but well worth it!

toomany MBZ · #7 07-31-2013, 11:29 AM

Welcome.

On the oil canister housing there is a stem with a couple of "O" rings, replace 'em if they are hard.

No rack damper bolt on non turbo cars.

Use diesel rated oil as mentioned. I use Rottela T6, full synthetic, I find it is better than straight dino.

Model 123 Maintenance Manual Index

Click on the OM616 button.

We like pics.

charmalu · #8 07-31-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toomany MBZ

Welcome.

On the oil canister housing there is a stem with a couple of "O" rings, replace 'em if they are hard.

No rack damper bolt on non turbo cars.

Use diesel rated oil as mentioned. I use Rottela T6, full synthetic, I find it is better than straight dino.

Model 123 Maintenance Manual Index

Click on the OM616 button.

We like pics.

Auto zone sells a small box of metric "O" rings for about $8. there are plenty for quite a few oil changes. they don`t have to be changed at every oil change, only when they start getting hard and not rubbery.

Be sure to remove the large "O" ring on the lid and install the new one that usually comes with every filter. read where someone left the old one on and added the new one. had a good leak.

Do not over tighten the 2 lid nuts, just snug them down. the steel studs the nuts screw onto are screwed into aluminum, there are threads here where they have been over tightened and they stripped out, or let go and had a oil leak while driving.

Have fun with your new baby. the 240 is a simple car to own, the most complicated thing on yours is the auto trans, and electric windows if your has them, some 82`s have them and some don`t.

Charlie

Maki · #9 07-31-2013, 11:40 AM

As a beginner I had a discouraging tendency to overtighten everything, which resulted in stripped drain plugs and twisted-off bolts. I recommend you buy an inexpensive beam-type torque wrench and refer to your manuals for proper torque specs as you tighten nuts and bolts. You'll find many posts on this forum about stripped oil pan drains and oil filter housing studs. A torque wrench will help you avoid that.

Dan Stokes · #10 07-31-2013, 12:12 PM

I'm going to get even more basic. I'm 66 years old and have been messing with cars since I was 5 - I've been around the block.

You MUST have some basic tools. Here's my starter list:

1) A set of Sears Craftsman hand tools. They'll have sets on sale from time to time. Get as big a set as you can afford as it's cheaper to buy stuff like feeler gages, offset screwdrivers and the like when they're all in a kit. At a minimum you'll need sockets, extensions, and handles, combination end wrenches, screwdrivers (+ and -), a hammer, and some sort of pry bar. Try to get both Metric and English wrench sizes - you'll use both more than you would think.

2) If you can afford it buy a toolbox with drawers as it's a LOT easier to keep your stash in order. Pawn shops are great for boxes.

3) You WILL have to get under the car - probably sooner than later. Get a floor jack and JACK STANDS!!!! Ramps are dangerous - I know 2 guys who got killed under them. Get the 4 leg stands with ratchet adjusters, NOT the tripod ones with a pin to adjust (not safe). If you don't have a concrete driveway or garage floor to work on, get a couple of sheets of 3/4" (19mm) plywood to put the stands on. If you lay the plywood sideways under the car it'll also make a much more pleasant floor to lay on (gravel is painful). Harbor Freight is OK for the jack and stands.

4) Misc. stuff. You'll probably need a cordless drill, a trouble light or two (I use CFL bulbs) and an extension cord or two. I'd choose the pawn shop over cheap stuff.

Cheap tools round off bolt heads and are not worth it. You'll cuss them a thousand times. Per hour! Buy the best you can afford.

I have probably $40K in tools not including my 30'x40' shop with a hoist and mezzanine storage but I'm a knucklehead. You don't need that to get rolling. I've laid out about $300 - $400 in tools for you and they'll pay for themselves in a couple of jobs.

This is a WONDERFUL hobby. Welcome and have fun.

Dan

shertex · #11 07-31-2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Stokes

3) You WILL have to get under the car - probably sooner than later. Get a floor jack and JACK STANDS!!!! Ramps are dangerous - I know 2 guys who got killed under them. Get the 4 leg stands with ratchet adjusters, NOT the tripod ones with a pin to adjust (not safe). If you don't have a concrete driveway or garage floor to work on, get a couple of sheets of 3/4" (19mm) plywood to put the stands on. If you lay the plywood sideways under the car it'll also make a much more pleasant floor to lay on (gravel is painful). Harbor Freight is OK for the jack and stands.

Dan

Dan, could you elaborate a bit on the danger of ramps? I use the most heavy duty Rhino ramps with parking brake and wheel chucks on a perfectly flat surface. In your opinion, is that dangerous? If so, why? Thanks.

barry12345 · #12 07-31-2013, 05:10 PM

You have to evaluate ramps. From an engineering perspective some are sound but many less so. On some models if one rivet in the rod on the side lets go you could get a ramp collapse. Rhino ramps I am unfamiliar with.

Old mercedes diesels may have more weight on the front wheels than many other modern cars perhaps as well should be kept in mind. Common sense should be used in all cases of elevating cars and getting under them.

I always position support blocks of wood as a safety no matter what form of elevation I choose. Personally I would never use some forms of cheap ramps alone as the principal support.

Two by twelves of different lengths of wood nailed together are one pretty secure approach for ramps althougth they would be heavy. They absolutly would not collapse.

The common sense has to play a part as well. Never elevate a car to get under it where it can be hit by another car. Do not elevate cars on grades unless extreme precautions are used. Do not get underneath and apply extreme torque to a fastening. Unless you make absolutely sure the car can not topple. I only go under a car when I feel both comforatable and it in my mind it is absolutely safe to do so.

shertex · #13 07-31-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

You have to evaluate ramps. From an engineering perspective some are sound but many less so. On some models if one rivet in the rod on the side lets go you could get a ramp collapse. Rhino ramps I am unfamiliar with.

Old mercedes diesels may have more weight on the front wheels than many other modern cars perhaps as well should be kept in mind. Common sense should be used in all cases of elevating cars and getting under them.

I always position support blocks of wood as a safety no matter what form of elevation I choose. Personally I would never use some forms of cheap ramps alone as the principal support.

Two by twelves of different lengths of wood nailed together are one pretty secure approach for ramps althougth they would be heavy. They absolutly would not collapse.

The common sense has to play a part as well. Never elevate a car to get under it where it can be hit by another car. Do not elevate cars on grades unless extreme precautions are used. Do not get underneath and apply extreme torque to a fastening. Unless you make absolutely sure the car can not topple. I only go under a car when I feel both comforatable and it in my mind it is absolutely safe to do so.

Thanks....good advice. The Rhino ramps I use have a 12,000 lb. capacity. I suppose, however, putting something else under there in addition to the ramps would be a good idea.

Dan Stokes · #14 08-01-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

Dan, could you elaborate a bit on the danger of ramps? I use the most heavy duty Rhino ramps with parking brake and wheel chucks on a perfectly flat surface. In your opinion, is that dangerous? If so, why? Thanks.

Even the stoutest of ramps have one fatal flaw:

If you're pulling on a bolt at 90* to the length of the car (say, a torque converter bolt) the ramps can and DO tip sideways. Both the guys I know who got killed (one I knew personally - he was a HS buddy) were killed in this way. His Dad was an engineer at the GM Proving Grounds and made the ramps in question out of structural steel. These ramps were STOUT. Granted it takes a pretty good pull to do this but when you're under a car trying to accomplish a task the tendency is to yank as hard as you need to and you may not notice that the car is a bit tippy.

If it was up to me I'd make these illegal to manufacture or sell in the US. I have a hoist so this issue goes away for me. If I have to work on the floor, out comes the floor jack and stands.

All this being said, you can probably do an oil change and other low-effort jobs with the car on ramps and on a solid floor and not experience an issue. But there's a tendency to think that you have the technology to raise the car and the next thing you know you're trying to pull the trans or some such and that's where the danger starts creeping.

Of course, another issue is that of convenience - the ramps SEEM more convenient but if you have to do anything with a wheel in the air (say, brake of suspension work) the ramps are a PITA.

Dan

funola · #15 08-01-2013, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Stokes

Even the stoutest of ramps have one fatal flaw:

If you're pulling on a bolt at 90* to the length of the car (say, a torque converter bolt) the ramps can and DO tip sideways. Both the guys I know who got killed (one I knew personally - he was a HS buddy) were killed in this way. His Dad was an engineer at the GM Proving Grounds and made the ramps in question out of structural steel. These ramps were STOUT. Granted it takes a pretty good pull to do this but when you're under a car trying to accomplish a task the tendency is to yank as hard as you need to and you may not notice that the car is a bit tippy.

If it was up to me I'd make these illegal to manufacture or sell in the US. .........
Dan

Wow I'd never imagine I could ever generate enough force on a bolt to tip a car sideways on ramps. Are we talking the same thing?

This is the type of ramps I have. It is made from one piece stamped steel. Mine are around 20 years old and pretty heavy. Each one weighs about 15 to 20 lbs so the gauge of the steel is pretty thick.