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match balance flywheel
Doing the auto to 4speed conversion: I have been calling around to get the flywheels match balanced... I have been finding that a) people don't do it b) people will not just balance the flywheels - they want the crank.
am i asking incorrectly? or what is my issue...I am in los angeles by the way; also will ship out if you know somebody.
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85 300D CA 82 300D |
#2
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If the flywheel on the existing engine is itself balanced you don't need to have the new one match balanced (just balanced). If it is balanced as a unit with the crankshaft, then you should see witness marks to show the proper orientation. (Sometimes these are hard to see though)
If they are balanced as a group, then you need to "match balance" the new flywheel to the existing one. This will essentially put the identical amount of misbalance into the new flywheel as existed in the old. Then you need to install the new flywheel in the same orientation as the original,which is why you make your own witness marks on the crank and flywheel before removing. I've heard that a majority of flywheels do not require match balancing...but you can bet that if you don't do yours it will surely be one of the ones that require it. It's just Murphy's law.
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Current Stable
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#3
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Quote:
Its possible you might be giving two much information. I usually leave it at "old 80s diesel" application. I try not to ever say mercedes or 5 cylinder unless the place seems cool about the job
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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr. |
#4
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Are neutrally balanced possible or available?
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RRGrassi 70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car 13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete. 91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K 90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K |
#5
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Yes but it is unclear to when the neutrally (or independently) balanced components were introduced to the OM617. There's this problem that lots of people can't find the marks on the flywheel or crank, and that sometimes the marks don't exist because the the parts were indeed independently balanced...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#6
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I never found any kind of mark anywhere when I did my swap, and I did Scotchbrite everything so as to make any such marks visible.
There is a place near me in Arlington, WA called Perpetual Balance that I have have a few things balanced by. Most recently I had my flywheel match balanced. I skipped going through my machine shop and went directly to the balance shop, since no machining was needed. I can't remember now if it was $60 or $80 to get it done, but the owner knew exactly what I needed done, as he seems to do a few of them every year. He does have a website at Perpetual Balance | Your Engine Balancing Specialist Since 1985 No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.
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- K.C.Adams '77 300D Euro Delivery OM617 turbo / 4-speed swap 404 Milanbraun Metallic / 134 Dattel MB-Tex Current status: * Undergoing body work My '77 300D progress thread |
#7
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Is this really necessary?
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words |
#8
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During my conversion I brought the flywheel in to be neutral balanced. Cost $60 if I remember correct. Worked great, I've done this on a 240d manual flywheel and the heavier 5 speed flywheel. Both worked great...still have the 240 manual fw laying around.
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1983 300TD - 202k with 5 speed Getrag conversion |
#9
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I believe that everything after 1981-1982 is neutrally balanced. It is before that that insanity reigns.
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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes 1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod 2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die." |
#10
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FYI -- the flywheel weight does not vary between transmissions, but rather between engines. The OM616 had a 28-pounder and the OM617 had a 38-pounder.
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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes 1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod 2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die." |
#11
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Some shops don't balance loose flywheels because they don't have a mandrel to hold the wheel. Most of the time when someone wants a FW balanced it is part of a crank balance.
You can easily zero balance or duplicate balance between 2 flywheels as, due to their thin section, they are only balanced in one plane. ( crankshafts / drive shafts are long and require balancing on both ends ) I've done it with damper pulleys when mix matching Oldsmobile V8 parts. You need a old time " Aircraft Tire Balancer " ( or general machine shop balancer ), this is a shaft with cones that go through the wheel center hole. The ends rest on low friction bearings. If you make you own with packaged ball bearings, pull the seals and remove all grease, use some ATF or similar to wet the bearings and put the seals back on. So, with this all setup, give the wheel a slow spin. ( it should go through a couple of revolutions before stopping ) After it stops, mark the wheel at the bottom ( use a square or fashion a pointer at bottom so you have a repeatable reference.) Do this 3 times, if the marks are all in the same general area, you have found the heavy point. If the points are at random, spin a few more times, if still at random the wheel is at zero (neutral / perfect balance). When you have found the heavy spot, add some weight to the outer edge of the light side. ( on the top, 180 from the heavy bottom ) Magnets work well here. Respin / mark a few times and adjust weight until your marks become random again. When finished you now have a zero balance. Find a reference point on the wheel, like an offset bolt hole / keyway. If you don't have an offset bolt, pick a hole near the added weight. Move your attached weight from the first wheel to the second making sure to use the same reference point. If you don't have a reference point or the first wheel was zero balance from the start, spin the new wheel without weights, you might just be able to clock the new wheel to match the first one if you added weight. Using the new wheel with you add on weights. Spin 3 times to find the heavy point at the bottom. Remove material ( usually by drilling in the case of a flywheel ), until you have reached zero balance. If you are balancing something like a stamped pulley, add weight by welding on small tabs. I think I've covered everything, this method of balancing is time consuming but works. The only alternative is to use a $$ electronic balancer, this generally has load cells in two planes, a read out showing out of balance weight and some sort of way to determine where the weight should be added. ( degree wheel , strobe ) |
#12
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My engine swap disproved that theory. original motor from a late '83 OM617 turbo. The engine had a auto ring gear plate that was not neutrally balanced. It was about 40 grams heavier on one side as I recall. The shop had no trouble matching the 240D flywheel I supplied to the auto plate. Had I tossed a neutrally balanced flywheel on instead of one that was that much heavier on one side, it would have been a vibrator.
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- K.C.Adams '77 300D Euro Delivery OM617 turbo / 4-speed swap 404 Milanbraun Metallic / 134 Dattel MB-Tex Current status: * Undergoing body work My '77 300D progress thread |
#13
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+1 on the mandrel. i had to ask five or ten shops to find two that said they could do it.
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'77 240D, 504H, OM617.952, etc. |
#14
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Correction
Quote:
After more research than I want to discuss....... I deleted my earlier postings. Because I had a neutral balanced 280SE flywheel handy, it was installed for testing = it shook the engine hard (worried about breaking the new engine mounts). Today I will install a 1973 220D flywheel per factory service procedure. .
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ASE Master Mechanic asemastermechanic@juno.com Prototype R&D/testing: Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician. Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH). Dynamometer. Heat exchanger durability. HV-A/C Climate Control. Vehicle build. Fleet Durability Technical Quality Auditor. Automotive Technical Writer 1985 300SD 1983 300D 1984 190D 2003 Volvo V70 2002 Honda Civic https://www.boldegoist.com/ |
#15
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My 84 280e euro had a non neutral flywheel.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
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