1965 190Dc Possible head gasket failure. Diagnosis help. - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

daw_two · #16 09-28-2013, 08:11 AM

Good Luck. I knew as soon as you posted the first quart of liquid out of the oil pan was water.....there was more work to be done. Please keep your thread updated with your progress.

DrCherry · #17 09-28-2013, 09:45 AM

Will do. I'm going to need advice along the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daw_two

Good Luck. I knew as soon as you posted the first quart of liquid out of the oil pan was water.....there was more work to be done. Please keep your thread updated with your progress.

DrCherry · #18 09-29-2013, 03:00 AM

This is the OM621. I removed the fuel lines and valve cover.

I've started whunter's list by draining radiator and the remainder of the oil. I removed the oil filter (there seemed to be a bit of watery oil in there). I believe I'll need a 27mm deep socket to remove the injectors. I assume I have to also remove the glow plugs.

The bolts holding the head on seem fairly straightforward on the driver's side. On the passenger side however I think I'm going to need a hex head with a long shaft to get these out. My regular socket hex head won't fit in there. Since I have to torque these again, what tools is right for a torque wrench. Perhaps there's a longer hex socket?

Tonight I sprayed down the bolts on the exhaust with penetrating oil. Any tips on head removal for this OM621, of course I've never done this before but I know I can do it.

DrCherry · #19 09-29-2013, 03:08 AM

I believe this is one of the spots that the radiator let go. About a half-gallon of water appears to have boiled over into the aftermarket overflow reservoir during the incident.

I think there was spraying out of this side as well as evidenced by the wetness under the hood. Shall I have it rebuilt or shop for a replacement?

DrCherry · #20 09-29-2013, 03:35 AM

Where can I get an OM621 head gasket? Is the Classic Center my only resource here?

cooljjay · #21 09-29-2013, 03:48 AM

Judging by his shiny the cam lobes are, I bet this thing was way over due for a valve adjustment....

Really really stupid question, but if you knew the radiator was leaking so bad, why did you never drop it off at a radiator shop to be recored?

DrCherry · #22 09-29-2013, 09:26 AM

The radiator wasn't leaking badly, there was a tiny pinhole leak on the driver's side that only dribbled. I'd planned on having it re-cored next month.

DrCherry · #23 09-29-2013, 06:46 PM

I removed the injectors to see if it was hydro-locked. It was. I put an old beach towel over the holes and a geyser of water threw the towel into the inside of the hood with only a slight pull of the knob. Looking into the pre-chambers I saw this:

Closeups of the injectors:

I'm removing the glow plugs now, they're carbonized but they don't look like injectors. I've never seen anything like this before!

whunter · #24 09-29-2013, 10:43 PM

Cover the injection pump ports, BEFORE trash gets in them...

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DrCherry · #25 09-30-2013, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Cover the injection pump ports, BEFORE trash gets in them...

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I will put a plastic bag over them right away.

Tonight I was able to get most everything disconnected from the head including the intake and the exhaust. I put the valve cover back on and a towel over the injection pump. I was able to evacuate the water from the pre-chambers without making a huge mess.

I plugged in my block heater for about 15 minutes while I removed the radiator. I was hoping it would evaporate some of the water. I'm reading up in this old Chilton's manual that came with the car about how to remove the timing chain from the cam sprocket.

I'm hoping to complete the removal tomorrow after work. I wonder if there's anything I should do to keep the internals lubricated, I can turn this thing over and I have one replacement oil filter on hand.

whunter · #26 09-30-2013, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCherry

I will put a plastic bag over them right away.

Tonight I was able to get most everything disconnected from the head including the intake and the exhaust. I put the valve cover back on and a towel over the injection pump. I was able to evacuate the water from the pre-chambers without making a huge mess.

I plugged in my block heater for about 15 minutes while I removed the radiator. I was hoping it would evaporate some of the water. I'm reading up in this old Chilton's manual that came with the car about how to remove the timing chain from the cam sprocket.

I'm hoping to complete the removal tomorrow after work. I wonder if there's anything I should do to keep the internals lubricated, I can turn this thing over and I have one replacement oil filter on hand.

Use a shopvac to remove all possible coolant from the cylinders.
Never use any abrasive on the piston cylinder walls !!!

Cheap oil (don't care if it is ATF, engine or hydraulic) pour the cylinders full.
If you desire to take "extreme measures" (more money), fill the crankcase with diesel fuel during the time you are working on it, then drain over night before final assembly. Note: I save / reuse this batch of contaminated diesel in a pickle bucket for cleaning parts.

If you are wise:
* The cheap engine start up oil will run just long enough to reach full operating temperature and/or a total of two hours before it is (cheap oil) changed.
* You will change to your regular good quality oil (fresh filter) between 300 - 600 miles.

ANY time you plan to leave it more than six hours, apply a LIGHT coating of axle grease to the parting surface of the engine block and cylinder head to prevent corrosion.

Coat the camshaft and rockers with a heavy layer of axle grease, put it in a plastic bag.

Put the camshaft in a totally protected area:
* No danger of falling = it can break.
* No danger of scratching - gouging the cam lobes.

FYI if the camshaft is already damaged, catalogs claim MB# 6160510601 is available for roughly $170.00 USD.

"However" you will probably need the following ancillary parts to make the superseded camshaft fit correctly.

+1 A 621 050 07 97
+1 A 616 180 01 27
+2 N 000137 005201
+1 N 000137 006200
+1 N 000912 006066
+2 N 000933 005030
+2 N 071434 008122
+8 A 616 050 02 33
+8 A 615 053 01 20
+8 A 615 053 00 72
+8 A 153 990 02 51

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KCM · #27 09-30-2013, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCherry

Where can I get an OM621 head gasket? Is the Classic Center my only resource here?

You don't have to go to the Classic Center. Gaskets are available from many parts sources that sell Mercedes parts. I'm sure this site can get them as well.

After you pull the head, you will want to check for cracks in the head and block. For the block, check for cracks that radiate from the cylinder, especially between cylinders. Cracks in the block are aways bad. For the head, check for cracks radiating out from the hole where the prechamber sticks out, and also between the valve seats. There will likely be cracks radiating from the prechamber, but if these cracks continue to a valve seat or are more than 1" long or so, that is not good.

Before replacing the head gasket, you definitely need to check to make sure the head and block are not warped with a precision straight edge. That is a lot of coolant so either the head gasket really blew or you have other issues, such as a warped head or block, or bad cracks.

Good luck.

whunter · #28 09-30-2013, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCM

You don't have to go to the Classic Center. Gaskets are available from many parts sources that sell Mercedes parts. I'm sure this site can get them as well.

After you pull the head, you will want to check for cracks in the head and block. For the block, check for cracks that radiate from the cylinder, especially between cylinders. Cracks in the block are aways bad. For the head, check for cracks radiating out from the hole where the prechamber sticks out, and also between the valve seats. There will likely be cracks radiating from the prechamber, but if these cracks continue to a valve seat or are more than 1" long or so, that is not good.

Before replacing the head gasket, you definitely need to check to make sure the head and block are not warped with a precision straight edge. That is a lot of coolant so either the head gasket really blew or you have other issues, such as a warped head or block, or bad cracks.

Good luck.

cylinder head gasket
MB# 6210161620

Here is what damage you need to look for on the cylinder head.

Cavitation
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/general-information/272132-cavitation.html

1980 240D CRACKED cylinder head + cavitation damage
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/325016-1980-240d-cracked-cylinder-head-cavitation-damage.html

1985 300TD head gasket repair
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/325433-1985-300td-head-gasket-repair.html

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/252429-diesel-cylinder-head-issues-thread.html

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DrCherry · #29 09-30-2013, 06:51 PM

How do I remove the cam sprocket from the timing chain? Looks like I'm going to also need a 10mm hex key that will fit into my 1/2 breaker bar. This is frustrating if you've never done it before! The good news is that I got layed off today so I should have plenty of time.

whunter · #30 09-30-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCherry

How do I remove the cam sprocket from the timing chain? Looks like I'm going to also need a 10mm hex key that will fit into my 1/2 breaker bar. This is frustrating if you've never done it before! The good news is that I got layed off today so I should have plenty of time.

You have E-mail to down load.

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