Classical engines vs Modern ones - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

OM617YOTA · #31 10-05-2013, 04:31 PM

I'm going to be a dissenter. For the most part, I prefer modern stuff.

Yeah there are some teething problems with new technology. For the most part, modern vehicles last longer, go farther on less fuel, require less maintenance, and protect their occupants and the environment better than anything before.

rstl99 · #32 10-07-2013, 11:43 AM

For reasons I don't always understand, I prefer the older stuff when it comes to cars and some other things. Part of it is being too cheap to spend hard-earned $$'s on a depreciating new car - I prefer buying something already depreciated.

And I've always been a sucker for "old-world" "over-engineered" designs. Whether in cars (W123, Volvo 240) or in electronics (Nagra analog tape recorders, Marantz receivers, older Thinkpad laptops). Mind you, I am quite happy to own a brand new Panasonic plasma TV! Some things you just need to jump into.

I was sad in a way to part with my no-rust '82 240D a few months ago, but only did so after acquiring what I hope will be a dependable and good car for many years, my '83 300TD. I see the 300TD as a great versatile vehicle, and am gradually getting used to life with an OM617 turbo. Thankfully the TD saw a lot of parts and overhaul maintenance in the 2-3 years before I bought it, so it doesn't need too much work. Sometimes I wish it did because I kind of miss wrenching, and was actually contemplating picking up an old Series Land-Rover (another old simple rugged vehicle design) to wrench on. But maybe I have to just see my 300TD as my "project vehicle", and treat it as such, tweaking and fixing things and enjoying being able to use it for many uses, as opposed to have an old Land-Rover stripped to the frame in the garage for a couple of years, and the TD sitting out in the elements...

Mark DiSilvestro · #33 10-07-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rstl99

For reasons I don't always understand, I prefer the older stuff when it comes to cars and some other things. Part of it is being too cheap to spend hard-earned $$'s on a depreciating new car - I prefer buying something already depreciated.

And I've always been a sucker for "old-world" "over-engineered" designs. Whether in cars (W123, Volvo 240) or in electronics (Nagra analog tape recorders, Marantz receivers, older Thinkpad laptops). Mind you, I am quite happy to own a brand new Panasonic plasma TV! Some things you just need to jump into.

I was sad in a way to part with my no-rust '82 240D a few months ago, but only did so after acquiring what I hope will be a dependable and good car for many years, my '83 300TD. I see the 300TD as a great versatile vehicle, and am gradually getting used to life with an OM617 turbo. Thankfully the TD saw a lot of parts and overhaul maintenance in the 2-3 years before I bought it, so it doesn't need too much work. Sometimes I wish it did because I kind of miss wrenching, and was actually contemplating picking up an old Series Land-Rover (another old simple rugged vehicle design) to wrench on. But maybe I have to just see my 300TD as my "project vehicle", and treat it as such, tweaking and fixing things and enjoying being able to use it for many uses, as opposed to have an old Land-Rover stripped to the frame in the garage for a couple of years, and the TD sitting out in the elements...

Pity you couldn't have kept both. I have an '84 300TD and '82 240D as my backup vehicles.
I have alot of old analog stuff too, including a collection of open-reel recorders. and a couple Marantz receivers. Haven't stumbled across an affordable Nagra at a yard-sale yet.
Due to my aging vision and back, The last couple years, I have replaced all my bigger TVs with LCD sets. Much bigger picture, much more efficient, at one third to one quarter the weight. (But I still use my VCRs!)

Happy Motoring, Mark

strelnik · #34 10-07-2013, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by questioneer

Hi, this is my first post.

How do the older diesel compare to the newer ones, Talking about the 616/617s.

Do you think the newer diesels will last 30+ years like the classics?

Considering the simplecity and durability of the classics, has engine mechanical design really come along way? Without all the electronics and whatnot how do the classics compare to the modern diesels?

Considering the smallest electronic issue can shutdown a car, do you think there will ever be an enthusiast community considering instead of just being a hobby mechanic, you will need to be a hobby electrical engineer and programmer to even begin to understand how to fix potential issues. Being overly dependent on dealerships.

what happens when decades from now the electronic parts become hard to find or even discontinued?

Im just trying to some opnions on this issue I have been thinking about.

thanks

The true classic engines are the parents of the OM615/6/7, that is the OM636 and the OM621. The OM636 ran in cars in the 1950s the OM621 in the 60s. The OM636 was run in Thermo-King refrigeration engines from 1958-2005 and manufactured as such, which was why the parts are still plkentiful.

And yes the 636 will run forever, if you change the oil and filter and adjust the valves.

strelnik · #35 10-07-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

Pity you couldn't have kept both. I have an '84 300TD and '82 240D as my backup vehicles.
I have alot of old analog stuff too, including a collection of open-reel recorders. and a couple Marantz receivers. Haven't stumbled across an affordable Nagra at a yard-sale yet.
Due to my aging vision and back, The last couple years, I have replaced all my bigger TVs with LCD sets. Much bigger picture, much more efficient, at one third to one quarter the weight. (But I still use my VCRs!)

Happy Motoring, Mark

Wanna buy one of my Ampex 10" reel to reel decks which runs at 15 ips?

strelnik · #36 10-07-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OM617YOTA

I'm going to be a dissenter. For the most part, I prefer modern stuff.

Yeah there are some teething problems with new technology. For the most part, modern vehicles last longer, go farther on less fuel, require less maintenance, and protect their occupants and the environment better than anything before.

That really depends on which ones you are talking about.

Early electric vehicles function rather well on modern batteries.
And steam engines and WVOI engines are not polluting more than peoiple who use use BBQ grilles.

strelnik · #37 10-07-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Hey Roy, who are your two friends?

strelnik · #38 10-07-2013, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doktor Bert

No, structurally, I think the old iron head and iron block engines are more durable, but less efficient.

Replacement parts are made obsolete to encourage new car replacement.

FWIW...

What ever happened to " Das Beste oder Nichts?"

Mark DiSilvestro · #39 10-08-2013, 12:53 AM

[QUOTE=strelnik;3219545]Wanna buy one of my Ampex 10" reel to reel decks which runs at 15 ips?

[/Quote

What model is your 15 ips Ampex machine?
I picked one up for $10 at a yard-sale a few years ago. It's a '50s vintage Ampex 350. The thing is huge! I had to make a special spot to store it.
I also have a mid '60s Ampex 10" reel video recorder, as well as several 7" Ampex audio reel machines dating from mid '50s to about 1970, all built (or at least designed) before the era of disposable electronics.

Happy Motoring, Mark

rstl99 · #40 10-08-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

Pity you couldn't have kept both. I have an '84 300TD and '82 240D as my backup vehicles.
I have alot of old analog stuff too, including a collection of open-reel recorders. and a couple Marantz receivers. Haven't stumbled across an affordable Nagra at a yard-sale yet.

Yeah, I probably should have kept the 240, but neither of my kids wanted it, the wagon is more practical, and I needed garage-yard space (for the future Land-Rover project, if I'm ever foolish enough to go down that path...

[QUOTE=Mark DiSilvestro;3219772]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

Wanna buy one of my Ampex 10" reel to reel decks which runs at 15 ips?

[/Quote

What model is your 15 ips Ampex machine?
I picked one up for $10 at a yard-sale a few years ago. It's a '50s vintage Ampex 350. The thing is huge! I had to make a special spot to store it.
I also have a mid '60s Ampex 10" reel video recorder, as well as several 7" Ampex audio reel machines dating from mid '50s to about 1970, all built (or at least designed) before the era of disposable electronics.

Yeah, Nagras don't often come up at yard sales I would imagine! I've been fortunate to pick up some nice specimens over the years and have a nice collection. In analogue tape recorders, Nagras embodied similar principles as the venerable W123: great design, attention to detail, quality components, long life. Similarly to the old Ampex commercial reel recorders players, of which I own a couple of AG440's (the successor to your 350, which was quite a find at $10 - those are prized by Ampex aficionados, and by analog audio nuts who look for vintage tube amps).

Nice to see that similar tastes in solid older technologies exist here!

Well, back to MB diesel discussion!!

tbomachines · #41 10-08-2013, 05:31 PM

Another side note - the 350ish hp coming from the new cla45 AMG is very impressive for a stock 2.0 4cyl number! You sure pay for it up front though

ichris93 · #42 10-08-2013, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Another side note - the 350ish hp coming from the new cla45 AMG is very impressive for a stock 2.0 4cyl number! You sure pay for it up front though

And that's why I don't have a modern engine. Cost to own + cost to maintain.

OM617YOTA · #43 10-08-2013, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Another side note - the 350ish hp coming from the new cla45 AMG is very impressive for a stock 2.0 4cyl number! You sure pay for it up front though

Ain't that the truth. My GTO made 350hp and 365ft lbs when stock out of 5.7 liters. The new Camaro makes nearly that - with the V6!

pawoSD · #44 10-08-2013, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Another side note - the 350ish hp coming from the new cla45 AMG is very impressive for a stock 2.0 4cyl number! You sure pay for it up front though

All of our cars cost a fortune to buy new, no different from the CLA. The normal CLA is actually quite cheap vs. what most of our cars were new when adjusted for inflation.

Personally the vehicle I'd be willing to pay up front for would be a 2014 E250 diesel wagon....so awesome.

patbob · #45 10-08-2013, 11:21 PM

No, I don't think the newer diesels will last 30 years like the old ones have so far lasted, but I also don't think the old ones will last another 30 years either. Either of them might become scrap for lack of spare parts, or perhaps because some undiagnosable condition befalls them. The newer ones are at higher risk of being declared irreparable simply on the basis of the cost of the repair, whereas the older ones because a spare part is no longer available.