Aftermarket Piston Rings and Cylinder Sleeves? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mölyapina · #1 12-25-2013, 09:29 AM

I see that Pelican sells both genuine and aftermarket engine parts. The pricing for cylinder sleeves runs from $20-$40, so there I'd be tempted to go with M-B... but rings are either $27 per piston from Goetze or $155 per piston from M-B

. That's basically a difference of $108 to $620 for a 240D!

Anybody have any thoughts on the Goetzes? Also, what is the difference between rings for automatics and manuals (I see they are listed separately)?

Edit: I suppose that, ignoring labor, the M-Bs would have to last over five times as long as the Goetzes to make up for their price... so if the Goetzes make it to 300,000, the M-Bs would have to make it to 1,500,000+... unlikely. I'm seeing that a majority of Porsche guys on Rennlist have no major issues with Goetzes.

oldsinner111 · #2 12-25-2013, 09:52 AM

I would call them and make sure

Mölyapina · #3 12-25-2013, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldsinner111

I would call them and make sure

Oh, you mean on the AT/MT difference? Yeah.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot · #4 12-25-2013, 01:58 PM

Goetze makes some good piston rings, as I recall the last time I shopped for them I had a little difficulty finding sets with a chrome top ring but eventually I did. They cost a little more but I have had better results that way.
A lot of guys don't install new sleeves and just lightly hone or bottle hone the old cylinders and call it a "rebuilt" engine. Then it burns oil after 5,000 or 20,000 miles and they blame the rings instead of their own incompetence. Got to consider the source of information. Most guys don't even know how to properly measure a cylinder and if they do, most likely they don't have accurate enough tools or experience to do so. The "that should be fine" approach doesn't cut it. Measure it cause it matters.
I have heard from some engine builders that years back the cast iron for some sleeves was sub-par and they had problems till they changed suppliers, ask around and find out what reputable shops use.
Take tare choosing a shop for the machining and follow Mercedes spec. for piston / cylinder wall clearance, ring end gap, RA on cylinders etc... and you should be fine for that part of the engine. Good luck!

Mölyapina · #5 12-25-2013, 08:07 PM

Thanks W. T. F., that's very helpful.

I was thinking of honing the cylinders at home (I would be installing new sleeves). Does this sound like a wise choice? What sorts of tools would I need for measuring?

I'll look in my Haynes tonight to see if it answers my questions.

barry12345 · #6 12-25-2013, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

Thanks W. T. F., that's very helpful.

I was thinking of honing the cylinders at home (I would be installing new sleeves). Does this sound like a wise choice? What sorts of tools would I need for measuring?

I'll look in my Haynes tonight to see if it answers my questions.

I am not certain but think the new liners for Mercedes are designed to be bored. I suspect too much material and possible distortion from application to decently hone down to specs.

Honeing at home is basically to give a final finish to help lubricate and seal the rings. Those Mercedes liners need sized in place first.

One is also poorly equipped usually to machine the tops of the liners off at home.

Honing down to size properly may be doable with fixed hones and the right equipment. A hone in a boring machine with a crankshaft refferance is what I mean.

Large diesel trucks have liners that are pretty much fit for immediate usage.

t walgamuth · #7 12-25-2013, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

I am not certain but think the new liners for Mercedes are designed to be bored. I suspect too much material and possible distortion from application to decently hone down to specs.

Honeing at home is basically to give a final finish to help lubricate and seal the rings. Those Mercedes liners need sized in place first.

One is also poorly equipped usually to machine the tops of the liners off at home.

Honing down to size properly may be doable with fixed hones and the right equipment. A hone in a boring machine with a crankshaft refferance is what I mean.

Large diesel trucks have liners that are pretty much fit for immediate usage.

Barry has it right. Install sleeves, bore near size, hone to fit each piston perfectly. Cut off the tops of the sleeves flush.

Stretch · #8 12-26-2013, 02:41 AM

Goetze, Nural, Federal Mogul, Moog - all same company as far as I can make out

I agree with Barry all of this work is best given to a machine shop. You can push out liners (weld a bead down the length apparently - never done that my self though) and you can probably fit new ones back in but then you need to bore to the appropriate piston diameter size (slightly larger) in the new sleeve. Honing is done to help the piston rings bed in and provide a decent seal. Without honing you'll end up with low compression and higher oil usage.

This isn't something you can do well with hand tools. I'm sure someone somewhere will claim they've done this however; probably with one of those drill operated sets of flexible honing stones. I guess these are probably the same people who think they can re-cut valve seats with grinding paste and a swivel stick...

cho · #9 12-26-2013, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

Thanks W. T. F., that's very helpful.

I was thinking of honing the cylinders at home (I would be installing new sleeves). Does this sound like a wise choice? What sorts of tools would I need for measuring?

you might but you will need special tools,..I watched while mine was done
and some flying balls machine was used..I never get name correct....
precision is the key here...

the tools (machine more likely) looked pricey...I can not imagine that it can payoff after 2-3
of honing jobs.... my advise is also take it to the shop

.