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  #1  
Old 01-02-2014, 01:53 PM
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300D no start, possible gelled fuel?

I have a 1978 300D that sat outside without running for about a week or so over the holidays. I had a trouble light lying on the fuel driver side most of that time. Plugged in a lower rad hose heater three hours before I needed to leave this morning.

Car wouldn't start this morning. Cranked and cranked most vigorously, but would not even attempt to fire. Recent glow plugs and valves adjusted in fall. The one thing that did catch my attention was this; usually with this car extended cranking success of fail results with a white cloud and a bit of a fuel smell behind it.

This time the air quality was conspicuously and suspiciously pristine. Did my fuel freeze in the lines? I toss a couple ounces of Diesel Kleen cetane + antigen (white bottle) per fillip in the winter. Does this car have a water seperator somewhere that froze up?

Thanks in advance

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  #2  
Old 01-02-2014, 02:18 PM
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I don't know what it got down to where you are, but here it was -27 C (around -17 F) last night. A trouble light won't generate enough heat to assist starting in those circumstances.

There was no water separator standard on these cars.

You will need the red bottle Diesel 911 to de-gel the fuel. The white bottle is a preventative against gelling, but it won't thaw out fuel that is already gelled. Only use the 911 as directed and only add it once, as it contains alcohol and isn't the best thing for the IP seals.

I had my block heater AND my lower rad hose heater plugged in overnight, as well as a warming pad under the battery, and my car wasn't exactly enthusiastic about turning over this morning.

In these conditions, in addition to some sort of heat in the engine, you need your glowplugs and battery to be performing at or very near 100 pct, preferably synthetic oil in the crankcase, and a decent starter. Put white bottle Power Service in the tank prior to cold weather as it increases the cetane rating of the fuel, which aids in starting.

If you can beg, borrow or steal a magnetic heater or even a dipstick heater, that would help. Also, bring the battery inside, or put a charger on it, for a few hours prior to starting, to warm it up and ensure it's delivering maximum kick to the starter.

Also you will need to go through at least three full glow cycles (until the relay clicks off, not just until the light goes off) prior to any starting attempt.
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2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2014, 02:47 PM
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It was -20 Celsius where I am. Normally under these conditions the car starts with one 20 second glow cycle (I have pencil adaptor plugs). I think sitting for a week in those temps outside was pretty stupid, I guess I got cocky and paid the price. At least I was smart enough to put a charger on the battery, it certainly cranked with great vigor. I knew I was in trouble when the extended cranking didn't create a fog bank of fuel mist.

So either Diesel 911 or I cook some steaks and scatter the coals under the car tonight to thin out the fuel. Magnetic block heater stuck to the passenger side of the block, battery charger and warmer. Is it safe to have a rad hose heater plugged in all night, or should I keep it on the timer to run for three hours?

Going to be -21 tonight oh noes
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aieeegrunt View Post
It was -20 Celsius where I am. Normally under these conditions the car starts with one 20 second glow cycle (I have pencil adaptor plugs). I think sitting for a week in those temps outside was pretty stupid, I guess I got cocky and paid the price. At least I was smart enough to put a charger on the battery, it certainly cranked with great vigor. I knew I was in trouble when the extended cranking didn't create a fog bank of fuel mist.

So either Diesel 911 or I cook some steaks and scatter the coals under the car tonight to thin out the fuel. Magnetic block heater stuck to the passenger side of the block, battery charger and warmer. Is it safe to have a rad hose heater plugged in all night, or should I keep it on the timer to run for three hours?

Going to be -21 tonight oh noes
Cold here too! For first time ever, our Mitsubishi heat pump won't quite keep our house at set temperature.

My 300D had been sitting for about 3 or 4 days. I had to go to dentist this morning, so first started our E320 which had been sitting outdoors for 4 days. No problem there. Decided to try 300D, which is in detached unheated garage. It fired right away, but stumbled a bit, the rpms dropped, but soon picked back up. I suspect I may have had minor gelling. I let it idle for a while then switched off. Later, when I got back home a few hours later, I went out again in the 300D. No problems. Amazing what good compression and good glow plugs will do even at -23C! May. But I would put magnetic heater on if I needed car tomorrow (I have block heater, but need a new cable)

For your car aieeegrunt, I would connect and leave magnetic heater on until you need to drive. I don't think the rad hose heater will do any harm being on, but may be a waste of energy to have both on. Maybe have it come on 3 or 4 hours before you need car. Charging battery is a good idea - it at least keeps it warm while charging and barttery warmer will do same once charger kicks off.
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  #5  
Old 01-02-2014, 03:34 PM
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I have a fancy smancy battery charger that "maintains" the battery once it has fully charged. Last night I had battery warmer, charger, trouble lifht and magnetic block heater on all night, timer set to turn on rad hose heater for three hours and I got no start, but no white fuel cloud out the exhaust either.

I think for tonight I will omit the trouble light, leave the hose heater on all night with the charger, battery warmer and magnetic block heater put some diesel 911 red container in the tank and see what happens in the mornin
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2014, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aieeegrunt View Post
So either Diesel 911 or I cook some steaks and scatter the coals under the car tonight to thin out the fuel. Magnetic block heater stuck to the passenger side of the block, battery charger and warmer. Is it safe to have a rad hose heater plugged in all night, or should I keep it on the timer to run for three hours?

Going to be -21 tonight oh noes
Lucky you, may hit -29 here tonite we are told, it never warmed up today as advertised, was -26 at 1 p.m.

I have found that the decrease in starting in extreme cold isn't linear. My car also starts up to around the -20 C mark without supplementary heat, but somewhere just a bit colder than that temp it starts to get really iffy. My last SD was the same way. My first SD, the w116, had no such issue.

You don't need the coals under the car if you use Diesel911. I have seen it work in the past, it's great. Give it half an hour at least to work before trying to crank.

No reason not to keep the rad hose heater and the magnetic block heater plugged in all night. I don't believe the 3 hours rule applies once you get below -12 C or so, and for sure not at these temps.

If you have an electric heat gun you can run that into the intake as well for maybe 15 minutes prior to starting.

Good luck. Nothing more depressing than a dead car at these temps. Lots of gassers had issues this morning I am sure.

I re-read your follow up, and I figure you should get action once you have the Diesel 911 in there. The magnetic heaters aren't a substitute for a block heater (BTDT) but along with the coolant heater there should be enough heat.
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2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2014, 04:02 PM
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FYI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharias View Post
Lucky you, may hit -29 here tonite we are told, it never warmed up today as advertised, was -26 at 1 p.m.

I have found that the decrease in starting in extreme cold isn't linear. My car also starts up to around the -20 C mark without supplementary heat, but somewhere just a bit colder than that temp it starts to get really iffy. My last SD was the same way. My first SD, the w116, had no such issue.

You don't need the coals under the car if you use Diesel911. I have seen it work in the past, it's great. Give it half an hour at least to work before trying to crank.

No reason not to keep the rad hose heater and the magnetic block heater plugged in all night. I don't believe the 3 hours rule applies once you get below -12 C or so, and for sure not at these temps.

If you have an electric heat gun you can run that into the intake as well for maybe 15 minutes prior to starting.

Good luck. Nothing more depressing than a dead car at these temps. Lots of gassers had issues this morning I am sure.

I re-read your follow up, and I figure you should get action once you have the Diesel 911 in there. The magnetic heaters aren't a substitute for a block heater (BTDT) but along with the coolant heater there should be enough heat.
Add a gallon of kerosene to the fuel tank, and run the engine for five minutes, you should have no morning start issue, even at -39° F.

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  #8  
Old 01-02-2014, 04:04 PM
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Off to Canadian tire I go! Should I put the 911 in now and let it sit all night?
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  #9  
Old 01-02-2014, 04:08 PM
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When were the glow plugs changed last? I've never had an "opportunity" to start in sub-zero temps but I've experienced that even in low single digits, diesels I've owned, would refuse to start until fresh glow plugs were installed, even with supplemental heat. It may be an added expense but if I encountered these kind of temps frequently, or daily, an annual set of glow plugs might be worth the cost.
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by aieeegrunt View Post
Off to Canadian tire I go! Should I put the 911 in now and let it sit all night?
Good question. I don't see why not. I poured it into the tank, but in extreme conditions you can also put it into the spin-on filter. From memory I was able to start my car -- which like yours had been getting no fuel at all to the injectors -- easily 30-45 minutes after I added it to the tank.

From the manufacturer website (same thing is on the label I guess):

TO DE-ICE FROZEN FUEL-FILTERS: If fuel is liquid in fuel tanks, but engine won’t start: Remove fuel-filters and fill with 50% Diesel 9•1•1 and 50% diesel fuel. Reinstall fuel-filters. Start engine. Add Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost as directed on the container label to prevent fuel gelling.

TO RELIQUEFY GELLED FUEL:
Depending on container size, add the following: 16 ounces (Part No. 8016-09) of Diesel 9•1•1 to each 20 gallons, 32 ounces (Part No. 8025-12) to each 30 gallons or 80 ounces (Part No. 8080-06) to each 100 gallons of fuel in the tanks. Remove fuel-filters and fill with 50% Diesel 911 and 50% diesel fuel. Reinstall fuel-filters. Start engine. Let engine idle to warm up fuel system. Add Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost as directed on the container label to prevent fuel gelling.
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2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
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  #11  
Old 01-02-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharias View Post
Lots of gassers had issues this morning I am sure.
Consolation prize?

And thanks for all the helpful info, I'll need it.
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  #12  
Old 01-02-2014, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by aieeegrunt View Post
Off to Canadian tire I go! Should I put the 911 in now and let it sit all night?
Just read how 911 works. Seems you have to put it in fuel filter. Then engine should start if everything else is good. If it starts and then cuts out, you need to put 911 in filter again, as well as add to tank. Then when engine starts, it may draw the 911/fuel to toward the engine and reliquefy any gelled fuel.

If the 911 doesn't work, maybe putting an electric fan/heater under the car plus a cover or some means of keeping heat under car might work. It could be gelling anywhere between tank and engine.

Glowplugs should be checked. Could a fuse have blown?
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  #13  
Old 01-02-2014, 05:40 PM
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I'm with Roy...

I'd NEVER use 911... NEVER on a car I cared about anyway, it's MURDER to the diesel engine fuel system.

I'd go to the store and buy a gallon of Kerosene. put THAT in the filter, and put the rest in the fuel tank. start the car without flooring the accelerator, and let it IDLE for 10 minutes to be sure the kero is well mixed with the Diesel prior to getting underway.
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  #14  
Old 01-02-2014, 05:41 PM
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oh, and yes... the MB's did come with water separators stock... the spin on filter is a water seperator... that's why they rust out occasionally... water sitting in them.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #15  
Old 01-02-2014, 09:34 PM
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I wish Roy had been a little more specific on the kerosene instead of 911 as opposed to as a supplement as I am now home and the die is cast. Not looking forward to taking that spin off filter off and juggling the goddamn thing. Why doesn't it have a flat base?

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