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  #1  
Old 01-09-2014, 04:48 PM
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Question rebuild a 603.9 or get a used 606

I need advice. I have a 603 out of a 91 350 I was going to rebuild. When I started to tear it down the cylinders a slightly egg shaped. Some say bore, others sleeves. This could turn out $$$$ when I get into this and see what else it needs. A friend told me a 606 would fit and bolt up to the tranny and I could use the mechanical IP off the 603. 606 NA's are easier to come by used than 606 turbos. How much less power would the NA engine give and what else is entailed in the swap? Thanks, this is getting confusing.

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  #2  
Old 01-09-2014, 06:30 PM
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Besides liners, you'll need straight rods, preferably upgraded rods. A Metric Motors short block might be a bargain. Any US spec 606 will bolt up to the tranny but a different tranny might not have optimal shift programming for a 606. No problem with the IP but I'd look for a 606.910 out of a '95 E300 which has mechanical throttle control.

I heard the naturally aspirated 606 overall has comparable power to a 300D 2.5 turbo, if you're familiar with that car. Otherwise, it's rated at about 130hp and needs to rev to make power. Think Honda. That might not be a good match for a heavy car. Not just the power but the drivability of a turbo 606 might be worth a premium of $2000 or so. You might be able to find a diff ratio that works better with your driving profile.

Sixto
87 300D

Last edited by sixto; 01-09-2014 at 06:48 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-09-2014, 09:49 PM
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will the exhaust manifold/turbo bolt up on a 606 engine?
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:57 PM
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Hello again, hope you've healed up properly. I have a complete OM603 3.0L that I doubt I'll get around to using before selling all the cars off. I've done the 300SDL to 350SDL swap in 5 cars, and have 2 myself, no issues. In your case, I would use the better improved head off your engine on it since you already have a 3.5L. If you need it, just let me know. Was the connecting rod and piston I sent you straight? It didn't appear bent when I checked it.

I also have a few 3.5L's. One block I'd say is eggshaped as a guess. But the one I sent you the piston and rod from had a premature turbo failure, so I would assume that block is fine. So, with what I have, you could go a couple different directions.

Anyway, hope you've been well. Take care.
__________________
1987 300SDL #1, 1987 300SDL #2, 1980 240D, 1982 300SD, 1994 S350, 1990 350SDL, 1991 350SD, 1985 300D, 2005 E320CDI

Gone, but not forgotten: 1981 300SD, 1982 300SD, 1987 300SDL, 1983 300TD, 1980 300CD, 1981 300SD #2, 1987 300D, 1987 300TDT, 1980 300D
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  #5  
Old 01-09-2014, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jusme View Post
Hello again, hope you've healed up properly. I have a complete OM603 3.0L that I doubt I'll get around to using before selling all the cars off. I've done the 300SDL to 350SDL swap in 5 cars, and have 2 myself, no issues. In your case, I would use the better improved head off your engine on it since you already have a 3.5L. If you need it, just let me know. Was the connecting rod and piston I sent you straight? It didn't appear bent when I checked it.

I also have a few 3.5L's. One block I'd say is eggshaped as a guess. But the one I sent you the piston and rod from had a premature turbo failure, so I would assume that block is fine. So, with what I have, you could go a couple different directions.

Anyway, hope you've been well. Take care.
How many miles on the one that had the turbo fail, if you know. How much do you want for the block? I'm not sure if all these 3.5's have egg shaped cylinders. Want to do this right to put it and rebuilt tranny in the pristine 91 and have a "new" car. I can do all the rebuild labor my self but trying to figure what new parts to put in is a bummer. Nural makes updated pistons if they ever get shipped to this country. Or could use the old pistons. My 90 "rod bender" has 270K and still running fine but burns a qt of oil every 800 miles. Trying to balance money with good rebuild. Being retired has it's drawbacks. And at my age for as little as the car will be driven, I may have only 100K left on me. Doing well recovering from knee replacement, hip replacement, and hernia repair in a year and half but it takes a lot out of you. My wife is going in for female/gastro intestinal repairs next Tuesday. Your prayers would be appreciated. Thanks for thinking about us
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Old 01-10-2014, 12:17 AM
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The 3 litre 603 lower block is the way to go for many reasons. Also once installed it will increase the value of the cars still having the 3.5 in my opinion. At least to potential purchaers that know these cars in the future.

Costwise it is probably as economical as any other option or more so. Nothing is bulletproof but with your later head it probably becomes as close as your going to get.

The 3.5 engine should never have been produced as you never know if it is going to hold up or not. Even after a rebuild. You know the 3 litre lower block will with rare exceptions.

I too am retired and needing more frequent servicing to stay above ground. Repair of a bulging abdominal artery is the flavor of this month. Just waiting to go in.

Last edited by barry12345; 01-10-2014 at 12:28 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2014, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneranger View Post
will the exhaust manifold/turbo bolt up on a 606 engine?
It's generally unwise to add a turbo to an engine that didn't come with a turbo, particularly if a turbo version is available. If you mean attaching a 603 exhaust manifold to a 606, there is a gross port mismatch:

606 exhaust manifold gasket -



603 exhaust manifold gasket -



Sixto
87 300D
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2014, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sixto View Post
It's generally unwise to add a turbo to an engine that didn't come with a turbo, particularly if a turbo version is available. If you mean attaching a 603 exhaust manifold to a 606, there is a gross port mismatch:

606 exhaust manifold gasket -



603 exhaust manifold gasket -



Sixto
87 300D
thanks again, just researching all the options.
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2014, 08:55 AM
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It had under 30,000 miles on the replaced head. I'm not certain about the block. Would any tags or stampings on the block indicate whether or not it's a replacement block, or OE to the car? Probably a Sixto question there. I have the block on a engine stand, and can get out there fairly easily to look it over if I know any identifying marks/numbers to look for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loneranger View Post
How many miles on the one that had the turbo fail, if you know. How much do you want for the block? I'm not sure if all these 3.5's have egg shaped cylinders. Want to do this right to put it and rebuilt tranny in the pristine 91 and have a "new" car. I can do all the rebuild labor my self but trying to figure what new parts to put in is a bummer. Nural makes updated pistons if they ever get shipped to this country. Or could use the old pistons. My 90 "rod bender" has 270K and still running fine but burns a qt of oil every 800 miles. Trying to balance money with good rebuild. Being retired has it's drawbacks. And at my age for as little as the car will be driven, I may have only 100K left on me. Doing well recovering from knee replacement, hip replacement, and hernia repair in a year and half but it takes a lot out of you. My wife is going in for female/gastro intestinal repairs next Tuesday. Your prayers would be appreciated. Thanks for thinking about us
__________________
1987 300SDL #1, 1987 300SDL #2, 1980 240D, 1982 300SD, 1994 S350, 1990 350SDL, 1991 350SD, 1985 300D, 2005 E320CDI

Gone, but not forgotten: 1981 300SD, 1982 300SD, 1987 300SDL, 1983 300TD, 1980 300CD, 1981 300SD #2, 1987 300D, 1987 300TDT, 1980 300D
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2014, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneranger View Post
How many miles on the one that had the turbo fail, if you know. How much do you want for the block? I'm not sure if all these 3.5's have egg shaped cylinders. Want to do this right to put it and rebuilt tranny in the pristine 91 and have a "new" car. I can do all the rebuild labor my self but trying to figure what new parts to put in is a bummer. Nural makes updated pistons if they ever get shipped to this country. Or could use the old pistons. My 90 "rod bender" has 270K and still running fine but burns a qt of oil every 800 miles. Trying to balance money with good rebuild. Being retired has it's drawbacks. And at my age for as little as the car will be driven, I may have only 100K left on me. Doing well recovering from knee replacement, hip replacement, and hernia repair in a year and half but it takes a lot out of you. My wife is going in for female/gastro intestinal repairs next Tuesday. Your prayers would be appreciated. Thanks for thinking about us
If it's determined you can use the loaded block, I'd be fine letting it go for around $300 to you since we've already done business together. I'll include the crankshaft as well. But first things first. Get your wife taken care of. Very glad to hear you're recovering well. Prayers surely forthcoming.
__________________
1987 300SDL #1, 1987 300SDL #2, 1980 240D, 1982 300SD, 1994 S350, 1990 350SDL, 1991 350SD, 1985 300D, 2005 E320CDI

Gone, but not forgotten: 1981 300SD, 1982 300SD, 1987 300SDL, 1983 300TD, 1980 300CD, 1981 300SD #2, 1987 300D, 1987 300TDT, 1980 300D
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2014, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jusme View Post
It had under 30,000 miles on the replaced head. I'm not certain about the block. Would any tags or stampings on the block indicate whether or not it's a replacement block, or OE to the car? Probably a Sixto question there. I have the block on a engine stand, and can get out there fairly easily to look it over if I know any identifying marks/numbers to look for.
I don't have a straight answer on a Metric Motors block but MB replacements are identified by NO serial number in the traditional location by the IP. Instead, there's a plate riveted to the bell housing flange by the block heater. The part number will indicate whether the block is part of a short block, long block or complete engine.



Sixto
87 300D
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2014, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
I don't have a straight answer on a Metric Motors block but MB replacements are identified by NO serial number in the traditional location by the IP. Instead, there's a plate riveted to the bell housing flange by the block heater. The part number will indicate whether the block is part of a short block, long block or complete engine.



Sixto
87 300D
I knew he'd have something to contribute. I'll look it over and see what's on the block.

__________________
1987 300SDL #1, 1987 300SDL #2, 1980 240D, 1982 300SD, 1994 S350, 1990 350SDL, 1991 350SD, 1985 300D, 2005 E320CDI

Gone, but not forgotten: 1981 300SD, 1982 300SD, 1987 300SDL, 1983 300TD, 1980 300CD, 1981 300SD #2, 1987 300D, 1987 300TDT, 1980 300D
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