w210 smokes on start up - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

turbozeke418 · #1 01-29-2014, 12:21 AM

I'm playing with my new toy more and more and when I started it this morning- 17* outside, It fired up find idled well and after about 30 seconds started to sound like it was stumbling/sputtering and smoked like crazy (diesel smoke). After it warmed up it still smoked buy A LOT less and was driving perfect and idling smooth. I'm used to the older diesels so I'm just trying to learn the quirks of the N/A OM606.

Another question- I have to replace the Valve cover gasket because you can see oil around the entire top of the engine cover. Anyone have a DIY link for that? I also notice Oil on top of the filler cap area. I'm assuming thats from the oil dripping down and blowing back up from the fan?

uberwgn · #2 01-29-2014, 07:08 AM

Zeke, what sort of shape are your glow plugs in?

whunter · #3 01-29-2014, 07:35 AM

You should find all the answers you need in this thread.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/137732-glow-plugs-link-thread.html#post1019018

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jay_bob · #4 01-29-2014, 07:49 AM

The OM606 valve cover is straightforward.

Hardest part is getting everything out of the way.

.960 NA engines have more things in the way than the .962 turbos.

This is the text book case of "while you are at it" - take this opportunity while you have the manifold off to renew:
- Valve cover gasket
- 6 o-rings, 1 for each injector well
- Injector return hoses
- Hard line clips and supports - if the hard lines were improperly supported, prepare for a line failure from fatigue, that becomes apparent when you disturb the line - BTDT
- the 6 fuel hoses between lift pump/filter/shutoff/heater/IP (don't forget the IP return to filter hose has 3 sealing washers - that are not included with the hose), If the hoses are good and you are short on $$ then renew the o-rings on each fitting.
- O-ring behind the fuel shutoff solenoid
- New spin-on and pre-filters
- Crankcase breather lines
- New gasket for intake manifold
- New gasket for cross over pipe
- Clean EGR goo out of manifold and consider doing an EGR bypass (easier on a NA to fool the system, the turbo is too smart for its own good, search for threads on OM606.960 EGR delete for NA or OM606.962 for turbo)
- If your glow plugs were not done recently now is the perfect time. But you want to do that first with the engine up to temperature. You want to shut down and go at them quickly while the engine is still warm. See many threads on this subject.

turbozeke418 · #5 01-29-2014, 12:30 PM

The previous owner took good care of the car. He said that the glow plugs were replaced recently, but with 100,000 put on the car since 2010 when he bought it, recent could have been 100,000 miles ago. I think I'll do the plugs for the hell of it.

I started the car this morning 12* out and she fired up instantly and purred for about 30 seconds. When I noticed the dash lights get brighter (assuming the glow plugs were still cycling till then) the car then started to smoke like crazy and run like it was misfiring. It continued to do this until the car warmed up and then it went back to idling perfectly.

pimpernell · #6 01-29-2014, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbozeke418

The previous owner took good care of the car. He said that the glow plugs were replaced recently, but with 100,000 put on the car since 2010 when he bought it, recent could have been 100,000 miles ago. I think I'll do the plugs for the hell of it.

Just a word of caution regarding the glow plugs. The glow plugs on that engine are notorious for getting stuck and breaking off, leaving half of the glow plug stuck in the engine.
Please read everything you can on the forum regarding this issue.
Removal requires that you have plenty of patience, a good supply of PB blaster or Freeze off, and that you stick within the breaking limits of the plug when moving it in either direction.

Five of my plugs came out within 2 hours of work, but the one closest to the firewall required 2 days of moving it back and forth 1/4 turn at a time all the while spraying PB blaster on it.
Good luck with your "new" car!!!

Chris W. · #7 01-29-2014, 12:50 PM

The car is doing exactly what it should. When the dash lights got brighter, the glow plugs were turning off after the "afterglow". Now the car starts to run rougher. Naturally. Just start driving gently after you start it and after oil pressure comes up, etc. Don't sit there waiting for it to warm up. It's a diesel and it takes a long time to warm up, and almost forever if just sitting there idling. Keep it under 2K rpm until the temp gauge comes off the peg. You won't hurt anything. Trust me, I've been doing this for many winters now on my car... and the last 2 winters I have not had the use of my block heater, which trips my GFI, unfortuately, but I digress. (if you have a block heater, by all means use it)

Rgds,
Chris W.
'95 E300D, 412K, saw 1F on the temp gauge last week, 10F this morning

jay_bob · #8 01-29-2014, 01:32 PM

I wonder if you are getting air in the system from a leaky o-ring on the fuel shutoff. Once things warm up, it expands enough to seal up.

I had that problem. The o-ring is a couple bucks at the dealer.

If you remove the washer bottle you can get your hands in there. Two T25 screws and the valve pulls back enough to swap the o-ring on the nipple sticking into the IP.

Don't disconnect any of the other lines or connectors, there is enough slack to pull it back and work on it in place, assuming your clear fuel hoses aren't board stiff.

vstech · #9 01-29-2014, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris W.

The car is doing exactly what it should. When the dash lights got brighter, the glow plugs were turning off after the "afterglow". Now the car starts to run rougher. Naturally. Just start driving gently after you start it and after oil pressure comes up, etc. Don't sit there waiting for it to warm up. It's a diesel and it takes a long time to warm up, and almost forever if just sitting there idling. Keep it under 2K rpm until the temp gauge comes off the peg. You won't hurt anything. Trust me, I've been doing this for many winters now on my car... and the last 2 winters I have not had the use of my block heater, which trips my GFI, unfortuately, but I digress. (if you have a block heater, by all means use it)

Rgds,
Chris W.
'95 E300D, 412K, saw 1F on the temp gauge last week, 10F this morning

I fail to see how a block heater could be tripping a GFI... perhaps you have a bad cord laying on the ground? try with a new extension cord to use the heater. a GFCI trips when >100ma differential between hot and neutral is sensed. the car is not connected to earth, due to the tires, so even if the block heater was internally open, and grounded to the block, it should not trip a GFI... only option is the cord feeding it, unless you have a grounding block heater cord, and there is a short to that... hmmm.

Phillytwotank · #10 01-29-2014, 02:01 PM

I did some work on a 606turbo recently. Smoked like all get out when it firts fired up. Similar symptoms to yours.

I cleaned the MAF. It all cleared up and ran great right away.

turbozeke418 · #11 01-29-2014, 02:02 PM

Thanks everybody for the input it helps me a lot. I'm very familiar with all the issues good and bad with the w123 and the w126. This engine is all new to me so I'm not sure where certain components are.from what it looks like to me the glow plugs are working just fine. I read some posts from people who have had the same exact issue I'm having. I think I'm going to have to read into them a little more.

jay_bob · #12 01-29-2014, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

I fail to see how a block heater could be tripping a GFI... perhaps you have a bad cord laying on the ground? try with a new extension cord to use the heater. a GFCI trips when >100ma differential between hot and neutral is sensed. the car is not connected to earth, due to the tires, so even if the block heater was internally open, and grounded to the block, it should not trip a GFI... only option is the cord feeding it, unless you have a grounding block heater cord, and there is a short to that... hmmm.

Class A GFCIs (what is used in residential panelboards and receptacles) trip at 6 mA differential. This was picked as the xx percentile chance of survival for a healthy adult male. Women and children are more sensitive than men so their percentiles are lower.

There is a 100 mA GFCI but that is a Class B used only for industrial heat trace applications. 100 mA leakage will be lethal in most cases, this is to prevent fires on the pipe (that usually have flammable liquids in them).

And commercial buildings have ground fault protection but the pickup is usually on the order of hundreds of amps. Again this is to ensure ground faults don't persist until the switchgear is burnt down (seen that).

If the block heater is leaking to ground inside the engine, it raises the car body to 120 V ac (or some fraction thereof if the short is somewhere in the middle of the element). There is enough capacitive leakage between the car and ground it is sitting over to draw 6 mA even sitting on the tires.

It is a good thing OP plugged into a GFCI, if he had used a regular receptacle, he might be dead when he touched the car.

Ok enough being worst case scenario. Let's try to get his block heater working.

First thing I would check is the cord in good condition. Remember that a short between neutral and ground will trip the GFCI.
Second thing I would check, is the cord securely plugged into the heater. If the plug is not snugged down there could be water in between the pins and the ground tab.

You can try ohming out the heater but the 9V battery in most meters is just not enough to break down a not quite touching short circuit like 120 V will.

RunningTooHot · #13 01-29-2014, 10:59 PM

As a temporary measure, you could re-trigger the glow plugs into another after-glow cycle. Do that by QUICKLY turning the ignition key off and back on while the engine is running, but right before the time when the plugs would shut off from the first glow cycle.

Of course, you will put more wear & tear on the plugs, but since you plan on replacing them soon anyways....

whunter · #14 01-29-2014, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

I fail to see how a block heater could be tripping a GFI... perhaps you have a bad cord laying on the ground? try with a new extension cord to use the heater. a GFCI trips when >100ma differential between hot and neutral is sensed. the car is not connected to earth, due to the tires, so even if the block heater was internally open, and grounded to the block, it should not trip a GFI... only option is the cord feeding it, unless you have a grounding block heater cord, and there is a short to that... hmmm.

The block heater cord needs to be removed, tested, and/or replaced.
I would just replace it for $13.41 USD.

This looks suspiciously familiar.

Replacement Block Heater Cord, 251919, Fleetguard Cummins - Ryder Fleet Products

https://www.google.com/search?q=Fleetguard+Replacement+Block+Heater+Cord+251919&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US

fficial&client=firefox-a

.

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turbozeke418 · #15 01-30-2014, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay_bob

I wonder if you are getting air in the system from a leaky o-ring on the fuel shutoff. Once things warm up, it expands enough to seal up.

I had that problem. The o-ring is a couple bucks at the dealer.

If you remove the washer bottle you can get your hands in there. Two T25 screws and the valve pulls back enough to swap the o-ring on the nipple sticking into the IP.

Don't disconnect any of the other lines or connectors, there is enough slack to pull it back and work on it in place, assuming your clear fuel hoses aren't board stiff.

Do you have a part number or what the O ring is exactly called for what part? I've checked on line where I get most of my parts and I can't find a listing for it.