I Repaired My Ignition Tumbler - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mannys9130 · #1 02-02-2014, 03:20 AM

So, I have finished repairing my broken ignition tumbler, but before I put it back into the car I want to see if you guys see anything wrong with what I did.

My sister's 190D had the tumbler fail about 3 months ago. She complained that the key was getting progressively harder to turn, and that sometimes it wouldn't turn at all. I made the wire tool with the beveled tips, and pulled her tumbler out of the dash. I handed her a screwdriver and told her how to use it to turn the bare ignition switch inside the dash. She stowed that under the seat for backup after I showed her how she could use the tip of the key to turn the switch also. The next day, with license and registration, the dealer ordered a new VIN matched tumbler from Texas. It got here in 3 days, and $120 later she had a brand new tumbler and a brand new key.

My tumbler failed about 2 months ago. I wasn't so lucky, but still very lucky in that I didn't have to tear the dash open. My key got stuck, out of blue, while I was trying to rush home due to an upset stomach.

The car gods took pity on my tummy and allowed me the 2nd-to-last turn of the tumbler allowing me to go home. Once home and feeling better, I took my tumbler out and did the same as my sister up until today. I used the tip of my key to turn the engine on and off. One time I popped the hood after coming home from college and looked over the engine, listening for odd noises and looking for leaks. I shut the engine off by hand, and since I had my keys in my pocket, forgot the ignition was in the run position. That killed the battery.

So that is one bad thing about not having a tumbler, beside the obvious Murphy law violation and asking for the car to be stolen.

So, just now I examined and repaired my old tumbler. The face plate is held on to the inner rotating barrel by a pin driven through it and partially into the inner barrel. I used a screwdriver to pry the face plate off. That partially bent the retaining pin. Then I inserted the key into the inner barrel which retracted the pins and allowed the inner barrel to be removed from the outer housing. I made a diagram on a sheet of paper, removed all of the pins in order with their tiny return springs, and cleaned the inner barrel and housing with soap and water to remove the paste of old grease and graphite that coated everything. Once everything was clean, I reinserted the pins and inserted the key into the inner barrel. About half of the pins were worn to the point where they no longer retracted enough, and caught the edges of the grooves inside the outer housing. If you run your finger from the barrel over the retracted pins, you shouldn't feel your fingernail catch a whole lot. A little is probably ok, but these worn pins were protruding quite a bit. Those troublesome pins were removed along with their return springs. I was left with a few pins that were still ok, and a few empty holes that now contained nothing. When the key is inserted at that point, there are no more pins that are able to catch on the inside of the outer housing.

I reinstalled the inner barrel within the outer housing, and tested it for function. The few remaining pins on each side of the inner barrel still do an excellent job at locking the tumbler solidly. Without a key, it won't turn. When the key is inserted, it turns smoothly and doesn't catch or feel stiff.

Satisfied with the outcome, I then turned my attention to the face plate with its now bent retainer pin. I used a punch to try to straighten it out, but it is very brittle, and it broke off. I removed the broken piece and drove the pin from the outside in until it was free from the face plate. It still looked long enough to be of use, so I eyeballed it and thought it could still work. I punched the pin back in from the outside in, pushed the face plate onto the inner barrel of the tumbler lining up the hole for the pin, and then using a small finishing nail I drove what was left of the pin about halfway into the face plate. So at that point, the pin which was broken off from edge to edge inside the face plate, was now halfway driven into the faceplate and almost fully into the hole for it in the inner barrel. It seems sturdy. The pin only locks the face plate to the inner barrel and prevents the tumbler from coming apart.

I finished the job by pouring a small amount of powdered graphite lock lubricant into the tumbler, shaking it around, and working the key in and out, as well as off/on positions.

I think I was successful. I'll install it tomorrow as long as you guys agree that the repair is legitimate. In the meantime, I'll be starting my new job soon and will be able to start saving for a new tumbler and key from the dealer. I think I can probably get another year out of this tumbler no problem.

So, as long as you're careful removing the face plate, removing the offending pins, and putting it all back together including the retaining pin, I think many people will be able to repair their tumbler if the time isn't right for buying a new one from the dealer.

When my sister's tumbler failed, I was curious (I am ALWAYS up for a little old part dissection) and I opened it up to see what was inside it. I filmed a video and put it on Youtube for anyone else who wanted to see what's inside. One of the comments on that video mentioned opening the tumbler and removing all of the pins. While that is an option, it would turn without a key at that point and I didn't want that to happen. That comment gave me the idea to do this, however, and I'm glad that person commented. Here is that video. I also have a little blurb in the description with additional info. It's kind of a long video, I'm sorry. I'm long winded.

I believe you will be able to see all of the things I'm talking about here in that video.

Inside a Mercedes 190E 190D Ignition Tumbler - YouTube

Please voice your comments, concerns, experience, etc.

Thanks guys!

-Manny

whunter · #2 02-02-2014, 06:32 AM

IMO this is a bad idea.

I have done as you describe, and it does not last long, and usually has a bad ending.

.

vstech · #3 02-02-2014, 06:56 AM

I was with you RIGHT up until you poured graphite into the tumbler...

mannys9130 · #4 02-02-2014, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

IMO this is a bad idea.

I have done as you describe, and it does not last long, and usually has a bad ending.

.

Doesn't last long? Are you able to give a ball park figure for me?

mannys9130 · #5 02-02-2014, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

I was with you RIGHT up until you poured graphite into the tumbler...

Why don't you like graphite lock lube? I was taught that the only two things that go into a lock tumbler are dry silicone lube spray (not supposed to attract dirt like grease) or preferably dry graphite powder (same). Could you please explain so I know?

whunter · #6 02-02-2014, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannys9130

Doesn't last long? Are you able to give a ball park figure for me?

Unfortunately most failed catastrophically within six months, requiring demolition of the steering lock for replacement.

I clearly recall two failing within three weeks.

.

unkl300d · #7 02-02-2014, 02:42 PM

Hey Manny, you get an "A" for effort !

I have never done this repair but apparently it might not last long.

I wonder how a locksmith re-keys a tumbler if not in the same manner (sort of) of your dismantling it in order to access the pins?

When I had my steering lock and tumbler replaced many years ago, a locksmith mentioned that he could re-key the (new) tumbler before I install it, so that my old key would work with it.

I did not have it done because I was in a hurry and just wanted an extra key so that I could take the tumbler to the mechanic and finish the job.

So I have two different keys for the car.

Good luck to you !

Diesel911 · #8 02-02-2014, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannys9130

Why don't you like graphite lock lube? I was taught that the only two things that go into a lock tumbler are dry silicone lube spray (not supposed to attract dirt like grease) or preferably dry graphite powder (same). Could you please explain so I know?

I don't favor Graphite either.

I use the real WD-40. The reasons are it hoses out loose particles and also has some rust protection as well as some lubrication. I have never had an issue where it has attarcted a lot of dust and cause the lock to bind.
Most of the liquid in WD-40 evaporates; at least at temps above 45 degrees F.
All the Graphite can do is act as a lubricant.

Locksmiths like to recommend Graphite but I have a feeling that works best on Locks on Doors where they are worried a liquid lube would stain things.
The other issue that favors Garphite is in cold weather where a liquid lube would freeze.

I have about 6 Pad locks outside exposed to the Weather. They are cheap ones and tend to rust a bit. WD-40 frees them up when I hose it through all of the openings and they are good for another year or more depeinding on how much it rains.
I believe if I used only Graphite they would simply continue to rust to the extent the would be un-usable.

Diesel911 · #9 02-02-2014, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unkl300d

Hey Manny, you get an "A" for effort !

I have never done this repair but apparently it might not last long.

I wonder how a locksmith re-keys a tumbler if not in the same manner (sort of) of your dismantling it in order to access the pins?

When I had my steering lock and tumbler replaced many years ago, a locksmith mentioned that he could re-key the (new) tumbler before I install it, so that my old key would work with it.

I did not have it done because I was in a hurry and just wanted an extra key so that I could take the tumbler to the mechanic and finish the job.

So I have two different keys for the car.

Good luck to you !

Not all locks have the same innards and not all locks are made to be taken apart and have the mechanism that the Key actuates to unlock altered.

A typical Door Lock for your House that you buy from Home Depot or a similar place is actually too cheap to be worth Having a Lock Smith change the Pins and tumblers.

If for instance you wanted all of your Locks in the House to use the Same Key and if they are the same brand of Lockes the Locksmith or You can buy new Tumblers in a set that all use the same Key.
Swaping the Tumblers is not too difficult.

From what I have seen the Pins and Springs in House Door Locks are accessed by removing a small Sheet Metal Plate. However, that Plate is staked or can even have the lock housing crimped over.

Automotive Locks tend to have No pins but Steel waffers inside and the whole Mechanism is crimped shut. Meaning they are not made to be takeing apart.

unkl300d · #10 02-02-2014, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Not all locks have the same innards and not all locks are made to be taken apart and have the mechanism that the Key actuates to unlock altered.

[sic]

Automotive Locks tend to have No pins but Steel waffers inside and the whole Mechanism is crimped shut. Meaning they are not made to be takeing apart.

I can accept this. Evidently, the locksmith did not know his stuff because I brought in the tumbler and key to his shop only because I had the two new parts together.
Glad I just had a new key made !

Diesel911 · #11 02-02-2014, 08:39 PM

Before the advent of electrionic locks at the below site is pics of an antomotive lock.
However, the discs or waffers can be different shapes than the ones show.
http://www.justanswer.com/pontiac/4uh5y-key-locked-ignition-out.html

This is the typical lock type you find on Doors in Houses.
Pin tumbler lock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I did not take a long time to look for sites that matched exactly what I said.