Considering a 2007 ML320 CDI, known problems ? advice ? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pawoSD · #16 02-13-2014, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMN

Thanks again for your replies and advice.

This vehicle will get driven 20 to 25k / year.
If I get it, it will be running on WVO.

I will make sure that the oil cooler seals have been updated to the viton ones.

The front runner ML so far is:
a one owner,
125k
dealer maintained w/records,
transmission replaced @ 95k,
new tires,
Southwest, vehicle.

But we are still shopping and are leaning toward a E320 CDI.

Correction, you will DESTROY IT, with WVO.

Good luck with that!

Veg oil doesn't handle 23,000 psi very well.

vstech · #17 02-14-2014, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMN

Thanks again for your replies and advice.

This vehicle will get driven 20 to 25k / year.
If I get it, it will be running on WVO.

I will make sure that the oil cooler seals have been updated to the viton ones.

The front runner ML so far is:
a one owner,
125k
dealer maintained w/records,
transmission replaced @ 95k,
new tires,
Southwest, vehicle.

But we are still shopping and are leaning toward a E320 CDI.

... at best you need to convert to pure biodiesel... but over 5% and it's warranty void time... I've heard some have run CDI's on B50, but it's not a good idea...

do a SIGNIFICANT amount of research before you purchase this car for WVO use, and be prepared to destroy pumps, 700.00 injectors, and the motor...
the motor is most definitely NOT designed for WVO use...

65aircooled · #18 02-14-2014, 12:18 AM

Not that I would ever do it or recomend it but, isn't the a member of this forum who has been runnin an 05 CDI for tens of thousands of miles?

vstech · #19 02-14-2014, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65aircooled

Not that I would ever do it or recomend it but, isn't the a member of this forum who has been runnin an 05 CDI for tens of thousands of miles?

on wvo? or bio?

pawoSD · #20 02-14-2014, 09:13 AM

Considering a small amout of water can do in a CDI engine.....WVO is guaranteed to destroy just about everything.

jay_bob · #21 02-14-2014, 10:10 AM

According to OPs signature he has multiple vehicles on WVO.

All of them are IDI OM61x and OM60x engines.

VWVO + CDI = certain death.

I found the MB spec info on fuels, it was on startekinfo
Document "S-0473-08B Factory Approved Service Products"

Service Products
Diesel Engines
Diesel Engines as of model year 2007
All diesel engines require S15 Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel (15 ppm Sulfur maximum). Failure to use ULSD fuel can severely damage the vehicle’s exhaust after-treatment device. Refer to Product Information (page 14) for a sample of diesel fuel pump labeling.

Diesel Engines -
Model year 2006 and prior
Use only commercially available vehicular diesel fuel number 2 or number 1 (ASTM D975 Number 2-D or Number 1-D).

As of model year 2005
For information on cold weather operation, refer to the vehicle Operator’s Manual.

Pre-model year 1999
For information on cold weather operation, refer to the vehicle Operator’s Manual or Service Information MBNA 00/7(11-82).

B5 Biodiesel
Mercedes-Benz approves the use of B5 biodiesel (standard diesel with a maximum of up to 5% biodiesel content) in all Common Rail Injection Diesel “CDI-engines.” Diesel fuels containing a higher percentage of biodiesel content will cause damage to your engine and are not approved. As biodiesel can be refined from a variety of raw materials resulting in widely varying properties, the only approved biodiesel content is one that meets ASTM D6751 specification. It must also have the necessary oxidation stability (min. 6h, proved with EN14112 method) to prevent damages to the system from deposits and/or corrosion. Please ask your service station for further information. If the B5 biodiesel blend is not sufficiently labeled to clearly indicate that it meets the above standards, please do not use it. The Mercedes-Benz limited warranty does not cover damage caused by the use of fuels not meeting Mercedes-Benz approved fuel standards.

funola · #22 02-14-2014, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Correction, you will DESTROY IT, with WVO.

Good luck with that!

Veg oil doesn't handle 23,000 psi very well.

Why does Veg oil care what psi it is handling? The fuel system, on the other hand cares.

jay_bob · #23 02-14-2014, 10:29 AM

Its not the oil but the inevitable contaminants found in WVO. Especially dissolved water.

GregMN · #24 02-14-2014, 11:01 AM

Thank you all for your concern. I was kind of expecting that...

I have communicated with a member that has 50k + on WVO on a 2005 CDI. There are many common rail diesel engines that have been running on WVO for multiple 100's of thousands of miles. Earlier Sprinter vans have been running WVO for years as have been VW TDI's, all at 20,000 + PSI. And, yes, the key to longevity is the quality of the fuel and the operator of the system (don't run it cold, completely purge the system before shut down).

Back to the ML...
It has had the turbo seals replaced and the servomotor replaced.

He is not sure if the oil cooler seals have been replaced.
Does anyone know if the failure of the seals is evident by visual inspection ?
What fluid leaks ? Oil, coolant, or both ? Can the failure cause a mixing of the oil into the coolant or the coolant into the oil ?

Thanks,
Greg

vstech · #25 02-14-2014, 11:07 AM

OK, everybody, it's his car, and he's not bringing up the WVO use so lets let him decide that end of the task... lets just help him with the car problem search ok?

jcyuhn · #26 02-14-2014, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMN

Thank you all for your concern. I was kind of expecting that...

I have communicated with a member that has 50k + on WVO on a 2005 CDI. There are many common rail diesel engines that have been running on WVO for multiple 100's of thousands of miles. Earlier Sprinter vans have been running WVO for years as have been VW TDI's, all at 20,000 + PSI. And, yes, the key to longevity is the quality of the fuel and the operator of the system (don't run it cold, completely purge the system before shut down).

Back to the ML...
It has had the turbo seals replaced and the servomotor replaced.

He is not sure if the oil cooler seals have been replaced.
Does anyone know if the failure of the seals is evident by visual inspection ?
What fluid leaks ? Oil, coolant, or both ? Can the failure cause a mixing of the oil into the coolant or the coolant into the oil ?

Thanks,
Greg

The symptom of the oil cooler seals is an oil leak in the V of the engine block. I believe the oil typically runs out the front of the engine, so you get oil spotting near the front of the car. I've not heard of oil/coolant mixing, my understanding is it's strictly an oil leak. The owner would probably know if he had this repair performed, as either the ML would be leaking onto his garage floor, or he would certainly remember the bill!

By turbo seals, does he mean the intake seal which tends to leak oil onto the servo motor? That part has apparently been updated 3 or more times. The turbo itself shouldn't need any service at 125K.

I presume you know the pricing of injectors and other components in the CDi system? Running WVO in one strikes me as a much bigger financial gamble than the IDI engines. The CDi is both less tolerant of fuel impurities and much more expensive to repair.

GregMN · #27 02-14-2014, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcyuhn

The symptom of the oil cooler seals is an oil leak in the V of the engine block. I believe the oil typically runs out the front of the engine, so you get oil spotting near the front of the car. I've not heard of oil/coolant mixing, my understanding is it's strictly an oil leak. The owner would probably know if he had this repair performed, as either the ML would be leaking onto his garage floor, or he would certainly remember the bill!

Thank you. That was very helpful.

And, yes, the seals that leak into the intake, that leak into the servomotor, that causes a big leak out of the bank account; those have been replaced.

I am still leaning toward the E-class.

BenzBob · #28 02-14-2014, 02:40 PM

Maybe someone can explain to me because I just don't understand. With all the issues of the new Common Rail Diesel, why does anybody want one? The last time I was in my Mercedes Benz Service Facility they had an ML BlueTec that either was misfueled or was fueled with contaminated diesel. They were already up to $7,000 in repair cost and had not completed all the repairs necessary. Similar issues with the VW TDI, misfueling or contaminated fuel will result in repairs averaging $8,000 with the entire fuel system needing to be replaced.

All I hear is issues with High Pressure Fuel Pumps, Diesel Particulate Filters, Ad-Blue Issues, and failed Turbo's due to the clogged DPF's. These are not your basic diesel's of yesteryear.

Add to that having no spare tire and having to deal with Run Flat Tire Issues due to the Ad-Blue tank occupying the space where the spare tire used to reside.

pawoSD · #29 02-14-2014, 03:12 PM

No kidding.....I'm going to bail on my TDI long before even the 3 year warranty is up. Not worth the costs at all. Plus in winter we have been getting 28-32mpg...which is terrible. Diesel is almost a dollar more a gallon right now than RUG around here. I swear my 300SD is faster around town too....the TDI has such a narrow power band (about 1800-3000rpm) that it takes 3 shifts to get to the same speed a 300SD will smoothly do in two gears with no fuss.

BenzBob · #30 02-14-2014, 04:31 PM

Then there is the intercooling icing issues with the TDI and if a piece of ice gets ingested into the engine you can bend a connecting rod. I would be very nervous owning one of these not knowing what could go wrong that even a factory warranty does not cover.

Somehow, I don't believe that our future is in Diesel fueled cars. Even tractor trailers and train locomotives are looking at Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) as an alternative to diesel.

VW is even working on a gasoline fueled car ignited by compression (just like a diesel) as a way to get greater efficiencies and lower emissions.