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  #31  
Old 01-18-2004, 07:21 PM
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Sean, the factory manual on CD has the procedure for dash removal. That requires several "sub procedures", which are referenced so you can look them up. It's not really hard, just tedious - plan on a full weekend and be happy if it goes faster. Buy all new pods before you start - yes, even replace the "good" ones because they won't last much longer anyway! Also you'll need a pretty large working area as you'll be removing a lot of parts that need to be carefully laid out, so you can remember how to put it back together. A digital camera, or Polaroid, will help if your memory isn't good. Fully extend the steering wheel before starting, and be *super* careful not to break the cruise control switch stalk when stuffing the dash back in place - trust me, it's annoyingly easy to break...!



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  #32  
Old 04-26-2004, 01:17 AM
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(bump)

Summer's here.. somewhat, might as well bump this and let everyone troubleshoot their ACC system.


Dave, do you have the part numbers or what all the different pods are called? I tested my system today, only the footwell and the one nearest to the 7-port manifold works (what a suprise... ). Anyways, I'll probably do it next weekend if i can round up the parts. I already have my center console removed so that I can fix my auxillary power outlet's cable (cigarette lighter). Until I can get the parts.. i think my center console is going to remain like this for a while
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W124 climate control vacuum pod replacement-pieces.jpg  
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  #33  
Old 04-26-2004, 11:39 AM
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I can dig up the part number if you'd like...
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  #34  
Old 04-26-2004, 12:26 PM
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Please, if possible
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  #35  
Old 04-26-2004, 12:59 PM
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124-800-00-75 - Defroster flap control
124-800-02-75 - Center vent air flap control
124-800-03-75 - Cold air flap control (diverter)
124-800-04-75 - Main air flap control (Left)
124-800-11-75 - Main air flap control (Right)

124-800-01-75 - Footwell flap control (Round, 2 required) - Up to VIN 289309
OR
124-800-09-75 - Footwell flap control (Rectangle, 1 required) - From VIN 289310


Numbers 00, 04, and 11 are "dual chamber" pods. Numbers 01, 02, 03, and 09 are "single chamber". All of 6 them will be ~$150 new. Note that later 124 chassis with the dust filter use different part numbers for all three dual-chamber pods. The numbers listed above are for cars without the dust filter (pre-1990).



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  #36  
Old 06-10-2004, 03:25 AM
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gsxr,

It seems that you know quite a bit about changing the vacuum pods in the dash.

I have a problem on my 1987 300TD in that air doesn't come out of the floor vents when the heater is on. It seems that the hot air comes out of the defroster vents.

I popped out the glove box, and I checked all of the vacuum pod hoses with my Mity Vac pump (as mentioned in this post) and only one line seems to not hold vacuum. It is a red hose with a black stripe connected to the manifold on the #4 port. I don't have a schematic diagram, but I am assuming that it is the vacuum pod that controls the footwell flap. According to your post, the footwell flap pod can be changed out by removing the climate control on the center console.

What is the procedure for taking the climate control out to change the vacuum pod behind it? I haven't found any info on how to take the console apart to get the footwell flap pod out when I did a search. Any help would be appreciated. (I only found info on how to take out center console with the window switches.)

BTW, the post on the vacuum pod testing was very helpful.

Thanks in advance.

-Steve
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  #37  
Old 06-10-2004, 10:50 AM
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Steve,

It sounds like you may have a vacuum leak somewhere. Port #4 with the red/black tube goes to the center vent nozzle. I bet you never get any air out the center vents - you should get cool air (never warm air) when the temp wheel is set to cool. If you have no vacuum, the default airflow is full defrost. On heat, you should get a trickle out the defrosters, and full footwell air. On cool (or A/C), you should get nothing at all out the defrost or floor, but air out the dash side & center vents. Check the green/yellow vacuum source tube at the top with the engine running and see if you have vacuum present. If not, you likely have a vacuum leak, or hose dislodged, in the engine compartment.

BTW - your failed #4 port is a bear to change, as noted in my post above! A band-aid fix is to swap #4 and #6, which at least gets cool air out the center vent at the proper time, just no with the correct airflow through the heater box.

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  #38  
Old 06-10-2004, 12:33 PM
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GSXR, thats different that what I am noticing.

I seem to get air out of the center vents when I set the ACC to any temperature lower than ambient. The center vents work for more than 15 minutes as well so it not a temporary thing. The only time I get air out of the footwell flaps is when I turn the temp on the ACC up to above ambient and then it is only for a few seconds that the air comes out of the footwell flap. It then starts flowing out of the defroster vents.

When I tested the lines they all seemed to hold 15" of vacuum except the one on port #4.

So what vacuum pods do each of the lines 1 through 7 go to?

I thought for sure the footwell flap pos was bad, but it looks like this may get interesting.

I'll check the vacuum on the green/yellow vacuum source tube as well.

-Steve
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  #39  
Old 06-10-2004, 12:43 PM
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Strange! Port #4 goes to the center vent pod. However, you can still get air out the center vents with port #4 bad, if the diverter flap opens (#6). What you can also do is turn the fan on maximum and apply vacuum to one port at a time, and observe the difference in output at the various vents. I'm starting to suspect a flaky pushbutton unit as the cause of your floor vent problem though, but if #4 doesn't hold vacuum, your center vent pod is dead (or the line is disconnected, or leaking). All the diagnostic information is in the climate control service manual on the CD-ROM. If you need the CD, drop me an email.

Oh yeah - to remove the climate control unit, remove the two Phillips screws at the bottom of the wood trim, directly above the radio. Then carefully lift the wood off, pulling the bottom outward, and the top will unhook - no force needed. Then there are 4 or 6 screws holding the p/b unit in - remove those, it pulls straight out. You can see the footwell flaps from there and observe operation while applying vacuum.

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  #40  
Old 06-10-2004, 04:44 PM
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That's clever, swapping the diverter flap vacuum hose for the center vent vacuum fitting.

Dave - Any idea when these crazy cars decide to open the diverter flap? Mine does so on occasion; I can tell by the noise. But I have no idea what criteria the pushbutton unit uses to trigger that decision.

One of us should probably post a listing of the vacuum hose color coding, and the vacuum ports on the seven-port valve. I'd do it now, but I don't have the shop manual handy on this computer. Sounds like this guys car may have the hoses switched around.

- JimY
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  #41  
Old 06-10-2004, 04:55 PM
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I checked and his #4 colors match. I am not sure when/why the diverter opens, or what the purpose is. The climate control manual does not explain that technicality very well. To me, it seems to force air through both the condenser AND heater core when close, but when open it may allow air to bypass the heater core (which sits in front of the condenser). That's a total guess though, and I don't understand how that would affect operation anyway under normal/max cooling (not bi-level).
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  #42  
Old 06-11-2004, 10:32 AM
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Having pulled the heater box, it's fairly obvious what the diverter flap does, I just can't figure when or why it is used.

For the unititiated, in a 124 the air travels from the blower fan, through the a/c evaporator, then through the heater core, and finally into a plenum at the rear of the box (the part of the box immediately in front of the pushbutton unit). From the plenum there are several doors which can be opened or closed to direct airflow. There are doors for the footwells, the center vents, and the defroster ducts.

In addition, there is the diverter flap. It permits air to exit the heater box after passing through the a/c evaporator, but before passing through the heater core into the plenum. This "diverted" air exits only through the center vents.

Here's a thought. Maybe it's used for the Hi/Lo setting. Permits warmed air to be blown out the footwells while cooled air comes out the center vents. I'll dig up my CD over the weekend and take a look.

Returning from our thread hijacking, something is wierd with swogee's car. If #4 leaks, it should not be possible to get air out of the center vents. If the footwell flaps won't stay open, I would expect to see a leak in either the footwell flaps or the defroster element.

I'll try to post a listing of the tubing color codes and positions on the valve over the weekend.

- JimY
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  #43  
Old 06-13-2004, 01:08 PM
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OK, here's a listing of the vacuum lines and vacuum block connections for the 124. The #1 connection is the top of the vacuum block, #7 is the bottom.

#1) Fresh air/Recirculated air flap small lift. Line color is dark red. When activated, this line moves the recirculated air flap from the 80% recirculated (i.e. mostly closed) position to the 100% recirculated (fully closed) position. With the glove box removed, you can actually see part of this flap, directly in front of the heater box, up against the firewall. This port on the vacuum block is activated with pushbutton "0" (i.e. off) pushed.

#2) Fresh air/Recirculated air flap large lift. Line color is medium green/light blue. When activated, this line moves the recirculated air flap from the open position to the 80% recirculated (mostly closed) position. With the glove box removed, you can actually see part of this flap, directly in front of the heater box, up against the firewall. This port on the vacuum block is activated with pushbutton 0 pushed.

#3) Footwell flaps. Line color is red/yellow. When activated, opens the flootwell flaps. This port is activated with the hilo pushbutton.

#4) Center dash vent flap. Line color is red/black. When activated, this line opens the center dash vents. The vacuum port is activated with the "EC" pushbutton selected and the temp wheel rotated to the min position.

#5) Defroster vents large lift. Line color is red/white. The defroster vents are normally fully open. When this line is activated, it closes the defoster vents most of the way, leaving a bit of air to leak out the defrost vents. The vacuum port is activated with the "EC" pushbutton selected and the temp wheel rotated to the min position.

#6) Diverter valve flap. Line color is medium green. See previous discussions in this thread for the function of the diverter flap. The diverter flap is normally closed, applying vacuum opens it. The vacuum port is activated with the EC pushbutton selected and the temp wheel rotated to the min position.

#7) Defroster vents small lift. Line color is red/light blue. This line takes the defroster vents from mostly closed (see #5 above) to completely closed. The vacuum port is activated with the "EC" pushbutton selected and the temp wheel rotated to the min position. On my car, it seems to leave this port unactivated for the first 30 seconds after starting the car, thus directing a little bit of air to the windshield. Then this one port is activated, completely closing the defrost vents.

- JimY
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  #44  
Old 06-14-2004, 07:55 AM
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While my climate control system (87 300D) appears to function properly in all modes, can a bad pod, or more than one bad pod, cause a drop in vacuum to vital functions for the engine?
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  #45  
Old 06-14-2004, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sooty Taillight
...Can a bad pod, or more than one bad pod, cause a drop in vacuum to vital functions for the engine?
No. However the opposite is true - a loss of vacuum from the engine compartment (disconnected line, etc) can cause improper ACC function.


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