IP Swap: 603 IP into a 606 engine - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

GregMN · #1 05-03-2014, 07:35 PM

I started a thread about a simple tool for locking the IP timing in place while installing the IP: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/354302-diy-ip-timing-lock.html
I got more comments on the install of the 603 IP in to a 606 engine, so started this thread about that.

1996 W210 E300D 325,000 miles, 150k on WVO
Oil changed every 4k
No unusual oil consumption.
No air leaks in the fuel system.
Rebuilt injectors at about 320k
IP fuel delivery seals
New fuel control valve 310k
All CCV hoses and pipes 310k

The car was getting hard to start when cold ( below zero cold ). It ran fine when started.

It had a knocking that would occasionally happen when push above 3300 rpm. This knocking was accompanied by a loss of power and smoke out the exhaust. The event would last from 10 to 20 seconds and would only happen once on a trip from cold start-up. After the event was over, everything would run normally for the rest of the trip, no matter how long the trip was.

I thought that maybe the IP was the problem. The drive-by-wire IPs for the 606 are expensive to buy and expensive to get rebuilt. Even sending it off to get bench tested is expensive. I was not sure that was the problem.

I have a couple of 603 engines sitting around. So I took the one off the 3.5 and installed it.

It is a straight bolt in swap.

The rear support tab on the 603 IP ends up about 3/8" forward of the rear mounting bracket. All you need is a spacer and longer bolt.

You need a throttle cable. I used the hood latch cable and the throttle cable end from a W124 parts car I have "out in the woods".
The hood latch end has a clamp that will fit over the throttle arm on the IP and fasten with a small bolt and nut.
I drilled a hole in the fire wall to mount the adjustable throttle end into and threaded the cable around one of the throttle arms actuated by the foot pedal. The idle can be adjusted with that assembly.

It starts and runs fine. The idle is static at whatever I set it at. It is set at about 850 in park, which gets to about 650 stopped in drive.
It can over fuel if you put your foot in it too much. Easy enough to regulate, just don't do it.
I never see over 3500 rpm in my normal driving, so the governed max. rpm on this IP will never be an issue for me.
The cruise control was integrated with the drive-by-wire system, so that is lost. I could install a mechanical unit if it really need it.

What I learned from this swap is: the IP was not the problem. That is kind of good news that the 150k of WVO did not ruin the IP.

The problem is a sticky intake valve (or valves).
The noise I hear is the combustion gases coming back up the intake runner and maybe forcing the flap in the center of the intake manifold (not the one on the crossover pipe) to open and slam shut repeatedly, until the valve is free again. Then it runs fine for the rest of the trip.
A stuck open valve would also make it hard to start when cold. One dead cylinder, like one dead glow plug, could prevent starting at below zero temps.

I will work on freeing up the valves and maybe someday put the 606 IP back in the 606 engine.

I hope this helps someone who comes across a W210 with a known bad IP that they can get for cheap. Not that I have ever come across this myself, but someday someone might.

sixto · #2 05-04-2014, 04:17 AM

Are you running the .97 IP with or without an ALDA? Is shouldn't smoke with a properly adjusted ALDA. At least it didn't when I swapped a 603.96 block into my '93 SD but kept the .97 IP.

Sixto
MB-less

GregMN · #3 05-04-2014, 11:01 AM

Yea, I thought of that.

The ALDA is sitting in a box somewhere. I had removed it from the IP when the engine was in the SDL. If I leave this IP on the car for awhile, then I will find the ALDA and put it back on.

When I did all of this, I finally blocked off the EGR pipe. I had fixed the flapper valve open when I first got the car, but never block the exhaust pipe. I should have done that 150k ago.

benzguy300 · #4 05-04-2014, 01:29 PM

Greg good information. I have a question where do you adjust the idle in on the 603 pump?

GregMN · #5 05-04-2014, 01:42 PM

There is a place to adjust it on the pump, but I just adjust the throttle cable's "at rest" position using the adjustable end of the W124's throttle cable.

I have uploaded 2 photos:
The plastic clamp from the hood latch cable end attached to the IP throttle arm.
The firewall end of the cable with the throttle adjustment assembly from the W124's throttle cable and the attachment point to the W210's throttle.

GregMN · #6 05-04-2014, 05:16 PM

To shut down with the key, I use 2 electric vacuum control valves.
When powered, valve one isolates the IP from the vacuum system and the second valve vents the vacuum line to the IP. = No Vacuum to the IP & IP vented.
When the power is turned off, valve one connects the IP to the vacuum system and the second valve closes the vent in the vacuum line to the IP. = Vacuum to the IP.

GregMN · #7 05-04-2014, 05:33 PM

I removed the intake manifold. With the engine running, I sprayed MMO on the valve stems. (Well, everything in each port got sprayed, but the aim was at the stems.) A couple of squirts at a time in each port over about 30 minutes. Running the engine at idle and up to 4000rpms. Used about 2 to 3oz. of MMO in total.

It was easy to see the valve that was not seating. I could see combustion smoke in the port at idle. It would get sucked away at high rpms. After the treatment, it was no longer evident. It could have been due to the treatment, or, that the engine had come up to temp. so the valve was no longer sticking. I will know better after the car sits overnight.

I also removed the final intake flapper while I had the manifold out.

sixto · #8 05-05-2014, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMN

To shut down with the key, I use 2 electric vacuum control valves.
When powered, valve one isolates the IP from the vacuum system and the second valve vents the vacuum line to the IP. = No Vacuum to the IP & IP vented.
When the power is turned off, valve one connects the IP to the vacuum system and the second valve closes the vent in the vacuum line to the IP. = Vacuum to the IP.

You should be able to do it with a single switchover valve as in W140 SDs. At rest such as when the key is turned to off, the actuator is routed to the engine vacuum pump. When powered, the actuator line is vented. If you use the right switchover valve such as a common overboost switchover valve, the branch to the vacuum pump is capped rather than vented when powered so you're not leaking vacuum.

Sixto
MB-less

GregMN · #9 05-05-2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

You should be able to do it with a single switchover valve as in W140 SDs. At rest such as when the key is turned to off, the actuator is routed to the engine vacuum pump. When powered, the actuator line is vented. If you use the right switchover valve such as a common overboost switchover valve, the branch to the vacuum pump is capped rather than vented when powered so you're not leaking vacuum.

Sixto
MB-less

You can try that and see how it works out for you. But the valves that I found out in the woods worked best for me the way I installed them.

The Marvelous Mystery Oil therapy on the valve stems seemed to have done the trick. I can no longer reproduce the symptoms that started me on the IP swapping journey. It starts easy, has more power than I seem to remember, and smokes less (like, none visible after about a block).

This IP swap information could be useful to someone who wants to swap a 606 motor into a non W210 car. You don't have to look for a, one year production, mechanical IP, from a 1995 W124.

sixto · #10 05-05-2014, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMN

You can try that and see how it works out for you. But the valves that I found out in the woods worked best for me the way I installed them.

I wish I could take credit but that's how MB made 140.134s (sorry, but this is how CSchmidt uploaded the image in the vacuum thread) -

Sixto
MB-less

GregMN · #11 05-05-2014, 09:14 PM

That will be a useful addition to the thread for anyone wanting to put the engine in the wrong car.

sixto · #12 05-05-2014, 09:25 PM

I'd rather add a switchover valve and some wire than add/replace the vacuum device at the key switch. Do later 210s have a mechanical or electric shutoff switch?

Sixto
MB-less

GregMN · #13 05-05-2014, 10:26 PM

They are drive-by-wire, so the fuel control valve on the IP reverses the flow of fuel to shut down the motor. No vacuum shut off. No manual shut off lever.