1987 300d injection pump issue - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Nlarry · #1 07-04-2014, 11:59 AM

So I recently purchased a 1987 300d turbo that needed work. The previous owner told me that he had brought it to a shop that "fixed" a dv leak. But in doing so they mis-aligned the calibration barrel. I removed the injection pump following the correct procedure. Sent it to the nearest Bosch injection pump specialist he reported that the alignment pin for the 1st cylinder was bent and he had to disassemble the pump and replace, then calibrate it. $700 later I got the pump back, checked and double checked the timing on the crank (verified accuracy by checking with the camshaft) before re-installing injection pump at 15 deg atdc. Took a little cranking to bleed air from the lines but it will only start when pedal is near the floor and it surges from 500-1200 rpm while puffing an extreme amount of smoke. So I've checked and re-checked timing by looking at the reference port. Everything seems to be in order, I do realize that it would be best to use an a/b light to fine tune the timing but shouldn't it run reasonably well? Is there anything that I'm missing? Could the pump be incorrectly calibrated? Should I bring the car to a specialist to have the timing dialed in using the best tool for the job? I'm just stuck and looking for some advice to what I should do next. Thanks for any help that you can offer!

scottmcphee · #2 07-04-2014, 02:56 PM

Disconnect the idle control solenoid wire at the rear of pump.. .maybe the rack is "hunting" causing the surging. And/or move the idle control dial to "0". In this position you will have very low idle like 500 rpm. With these changes, the car should not hunt or surge to different RPMs because of the positioner (take it out of the equation).

Does the rack move freely and over it's complete range when the pedal is pressed to the floor? Check linkage.

How badly is the timing chain worn?

What color is the smoke?

Other suggestions:
buy another used IP, from me say...

dieselbenz1 · #3 07-04-2014, 04:35 PM

Did you use the ip lock tool?

Diesel911 · #4 07-04-2014, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nlarry

So I recently purchased a 1987 300d turbo that needed work. The previous owner told me that he had brought it to a shop that "fixed" a dv leak. But in doing so they mis-aligned the calibration barrel. I removed the injection pump following the correct procedure. Sent it to the nearest Bosch injection pump specialist he reported that the alignment pin for the 1st cylinder was bent and he had to disassemble the pump and replace, then calibrate it. $700 later I got the pump back, checked and double checked the timing on the crank (verified accuracy by checking with the camshaft) before re-installing injection pump at 15 deg atdc. Took a little cranking to bleed air from the lines but it will only start when pedal is near the floor and it surges from 500-1200 rpm while puffing an extreme amount of smoke. So I've checked and re-checked timing by looking at the reference port. Everything seems to be in order, I do realize that it would be best to use an a/b light to fine tune the timing but shouldn't it run reasonably well? Is there anything that I'm missing? Could the pump be incorrectly calibrated? Should I bring the car to a specialist to have the timing dialed in using the best tool for the job? I'm just stuck and looking for some advice to what I should do next. Thanks for any help that you can offer!

As diesebenz was suggesting looking through the port is not going to time ie properly except by an accident of good luck.

There is a Timing Locking Pin that fits into that port that is about $37 each. Pelican sells it and it is also on eBay.

It is supposed to be used with the Fuel Injection Pump off, tool inserted and locked into the pump. And, the Pump reinstalled with the Crank at 15 degrees After Top Dead Center of the Compression Stroke.

The means the Engine is turned in the direction of normal rotation till it is at Top Dead Center (OT on the Crank) on the Compression Stroke and then you continue past Top Dead Center to 15 Degrees After Top Dead Center (The actual Timing is on a sticker under the Hood someplace).

At that point you insert the Fuel Injection Pump so that the Mounting Studs or Bolts are center in the adjustment slots and tighen the Pump down and remove the Timing Locking Pin.
That serves as the most basic Timing. I did that on My 84 300d and left it like that.

So Pump locked is important and being 15 degrees ATDC of the Compression Stroke is important.

If the Fuel Injection Pump was drained of Oil there is a Plug somewhere to add about a pint of Oil to the Fuel Injection Pump.

scottmcphee · #5 07-05-2014, 09:09 PM

I have the locking pin for the IP its Mercedes brand and I used it once for my IP work.

Yours for $10 plus shipping

PM me

Maxbumpo · #6 07-07-2014, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nlarry

checked and double checked the timing on the crank (verified accuracy by checking with the camshaft) before re-installing injection pump at 15 deg atdc. Took a little cranking to bleed air from the lines but it will only start when pedal is near the floor and it surges from 500-1200 rpm while puffing an extreme amount of smoke.

Despite your description of your work above, I would suspect from the symptoms that you could have the pump 180 degrees out of time. It's easy to do, sometimes painful to figure out. The engine will run exactly as you describe.

Assuming you haven't done any other work (i.e. replaced the timing chain or the camshaft or otherwise moved the timing chain), recommend you remove the valve cover, and rotate the engine through several full revolutions, watching both the TDC mark on the crank balancer and the movement of the camshaft opening/closing the intake and exhaust valves, until you are confident you can set the crank at 15 deg ATDC for the number one piston. Another way of stating this: you watch the intake and exhaust valve for number one, and be sure that the following sequence occurs. Exhaust valve opens, TDC mark goes by, and then exhaust valve closes. Intake valve opens, and then closes, and then TDC mark comes up. NOW you have TDC for number one.

As long as you are in the ball park of 15 deg ATDC, the engine should run fairly well. Late injection is better than early injection, if you have any doubts. Late = more smoke and worse mileage, but less risk of early detonation and increased strain on the engine internals.

shertex · #7 07-07-2014, 01:02 PM

Interesting....I owned this car briefly before the guy who sold it to you. When I sold it to him, I tried to impress upon him the importance of only having people who knew what they were doing work on it. Too bad he didn't listen. It ran GREAT, especially after I removed the ALDA.

winmutt · #8 07-07-2014, 02:23 PM

I would have sold you a good used pump for far less than $700....

Cadin · #9 07-07-2014, 05:13 PM

I used a 7/16 hardwood dowel from Home Depot, fit perfect, worked fine for me! Easy to work and cheap!

(Though the proper tool for $10 is a great deal!)

spock505 · #10 07-07-2014, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nlarry

So I recently purchased a 1987 300d turbo that needed work. The previous owner told me that he had brought it to a shop that "fixed" a dv leak. But in doing so they mis-aligned the calibration barrel. I removed the injection pump following the correct procedure. Sent it to the nearest Bosch injection pump specialist he reported that the alignment pin for the 1st cylinder was bent and he had to disassemble the pump and replace, then calibrate it. $700 later I got the pump back, checked and double checked the timing on the crank (verified accuracy by checking with the camshaft) before re-installing injection pump at 15 deg atdc. Took a little cranking to bleed air from the lines but it will only start when pedal is near the floor and it surges from 500-1200 rpm while puffing an extreme amount of smoke. So I've checked and re-checked timing by looking at the reference port. Everything seems to be in order, I do realize that it would be best to use an a/b light to fine tune the timing but shouldn't it run reasonably well? Is there anything that I'm missing? Could the pump be incorrectly calibrated? Should I bring the car to a specialist to have the timing dialed in using the best tool for the job? I'm just stuck and looking for some advice to what I should do next. Thanks for any help that you can offer!

The surging sounds like a fuel delivery issue, perhaps debris in the delivery valve seats. If the IP timing was 180 degrees out the engine probably wouldn't run.

I have seen comments before about the ALDA unit helping tick over, maybe worth investigating.

If it's only the pump that's been removed IP timing through the port either visually or with tool should be ok. Reason being, one tooth out and your unlikely to see the notch at all.

Best of luck.

Maxbumpo · #11 07-08-2014, 12:33 PM

After re-reading the original post and reading Shertex's addition:

(1) Is the ALDA installed now or not?

(2) I recommend you follow the procedure for measuring the timing chain stretch to ensure the camshaft timing is correct and stretch is 3 degrees or less. I've attached the procedure to this post:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/203770-timing-chain.html

This method to measure the stretch can be more precise if you lay a ruler or other straight edge along the camshaft bearing caps, because each cap has the same timing mark. Line up the ruler on the timing marks and hang the end over the camshaft timing mark, close one eye and try to get directly over the ruler with your other eye.

At 5 degrees of stretch, engine performance will be slightly degraded, so to get as bad as your engine either the IP is wrong (timing or calibration) or the camshaft is wrong (chain stretch or chain off by a tooth) or your injectors are terrible or you've got an air restriction in either the intake or the exhaust, or some other problem that I haven't thought of.

jay_bob · #12 07-08-2014, 07:27 PM

Another related trick:
The oil filler port on the OM61x and 60x engines is situated such that you can open it and see the cylinder #1 section of the cam shaft below.

Nlarry · #13 07-09-2014, 01:58 PM

First of all I would like to thank everyone for the help and advice! It's nice to see a group of very knowledgeable people willing to help! But on to the car now, everytime I loosened and advanced the pump then re-tightened it began to run better and better. I had to removed the pump and advance the timing then re-install, but I was able to get it running right! I was very careful as to not advancing it more than a degree each time. I do have slight smoke on idle and at wot it releases a steady stream. Engine sounds very healthy, but I feel that it's really a dog from 0-15 (pulling away from stop signs and lights) but after that it picks up. But maybe that's how they are and I need to get used to it.

Scott: I made a tool out of steel rod I had in my shop but I would definitely like to buy that from you, tell me the best way to send payment. (my zip is 02879)

Shertex: John (the PO) brought it to a domestic diesel truck place. He was having issues with it not starting and misfiring due to leaking delivery valves. When he got it back the car would always start but it misfired worse. He moved for grad school and sold it to me. After I had done my research I began diagnosing the misfire, started by loosening the injector lines one-by-one found that cyl #1 was recieving absolutely no fuel. I removed the pump and sent it out, a few weeks later the specialist said that the dv had been removed and re-installed it such a way that it peened the alignment pin over...he had to completely dis-assemble replace the pin and re-seal then calibrate. I'm happy that it's back in action finally. I'm a little confused about the ALDA I see the unit on top of the injection pump? Did you gut it and then reinstall? I wanted to find out the exact mileage so I could go through the maintenance items. The carfax showed it went from 150,000 to 91,000 at the next registration? and its been stuck like that since John owned it. I would like to pull it apart and repair the odometer and set the mileage to around where it "should be". John said that he would estimate it to being around 170k. Let me know what you think.

Max: Thank you for the information, I checked and double checked that the lobes were both pointed up before installing pump. I'm going to do the timing chain stretch test next and I will report back with results.

I would like to install a boost gauge to monitor the turbo, there is a threaded hex plug in the intake manifold that looks like a great place to tap into. Any words of caution or advice before installing would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Nick

shertex · #14 07-09-2014, 02:20 PM

Re ALDA, I removed the ALDA and left it off when I sold Jon the car. I recommended that he leave it off but he put it back on (why, I don't know).

Re mileage, here is the language from my Craigslist ad when I sold the car...perhaps it will help you to reconstruct an accurate estimate.

As mentioned above, the actual mileage is unknown; the odometer stopped working at 91,851 miles. I am the car's third owner. The owner prior to me believes the car had approximately 115,000 miles on it when he purchased it in 2007 (this according to the first owner based on when the odometer stopped working for him). Then he drove it another 30,000 miles over the course of five years. Of course there's no way to be certain; my figure of 145,000 miles is merely an informed guess...I simply want to convey to you what's been conveyed to me.