CV Joint (homokinetic) reassembly question... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

DrLou · #1 07-17-2014, 09:07 AM

I'm in process on rebooting/repacking my axles on the '83 SD. Have been using the Febi/Bilstein replacement boots with new cans. So far, so good!

But wanted to gather opinions on the reassembly step: My outer joint(s) are clearly marked with a 4 and 5, suggesting their orientation at reassembly. Even easier, there is a clear wear groove between two faces of one of the races*.

The bearings are, amazingly, all precisely the same size, to the hundredth of a millimeter! Gotta love this engineering.

Question: What are opinions on offsetting the races on reassembly - in order to perhaps(?) - distribute some of the wear. Or is each of the joints perfectly balanced exactly as it was originally assembled? Would you expect to introduce a vibration doing an offset? Has anyone tried this?

*(moderators, where are the submission guidelines re picture sizing/resolution?)

Stretch · #2 07-17-2014, 11:18 AM

I'm not 100% sure about the 4 and the 5 markings (it has been some time since I attempted this job) so I'll reserve judgement on that until the pictures show up =>

800 X 600 is the maximum size for attaching a picture to this forum

As for balancing - well I think they just made them as homogeneous as they could and kind of hoped it would all come good - I'm pretty sure they're not actually balanced.

I get the feeling you're over thinking this a bit - but I'd expect that from a doctor!

Anyway it sounds like you've done the easy bit - the next part is a twat - how to form the cans without kicking the crap out of the hole that you will need to have "round" if you want the boots to to fit properly.

Before you carry on with the installation of rubber Febi parts I would really seriously consider an other manufacturer's rubber offering or at the very least some serious soaking in aerospace303 => I've know Febi rubber parts to crack within one Northern European winter (so not Canada / Northern USA cold)

vstech · #3 07-17-2014, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrLou

*(moderators, where are the submission guidelines re picture sizing/resolution?)

if you go to edit your post, then click advanced, there will be a section below called additional options. in there the attach files section has a manage attachments button for uploading images to the forum.
below the upload section is specifications for the different types of attachments you can use.

also, you can host your pics on another server, and just link to that picture with the img tag, by clicking the yellow icon above the message text body block, it's a square with a mountain, and the moon in it...

Diesel911 · #4 07-17-2014, 03:51 PM

When you install the Can end that Goes over the Axle Splined Stub use some sort of sealant between the can and the back of the Axle Spider as the aftermaret Cans have been know not to seal well there.

In fact Rebuilt Axles like the CarDone ones have been know to leak or have that Can even be loose on the Shaft. However, they use Grease to lube their Axles so all of your Lube is not going to dump out.

If you are using Grease as the Lube don't limit Yourself to what is in the Grease Packet; be sure to pack the whole inside and Parts in the Can solidly with Grease and some extra in the Boot.
Extra CV Joint Grease at Autozone is about $4-$7 a Tube

Concerning the Rubber Boots. The Dorman Stock style of Boots are made in China.

There is a company GKN (GNK? can't remember which supposed to be OEM) selling New Mercedes Axles at $440-$500 range. I have also seen their re-Boot Kits for sale.

Stretch · #5 07-18-2014, 05:02 AM

The GKN boots for my W201 axles came with clips that were too big and the boots themselves felt of a pretty poor quality =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/352107-w201-annular-axle-re-boot-much-easier-than-w123-homokinetic-axles.html

rscurtis · #6 07-19-2014, 08:44 PM

I'm curious to know what kind of luck you'll have when you try to crimp the new cans.

Diesel911 · #7 07-20-2014, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rscurtis

I'm curious to know what kind of luck you'll have when you try to crimp the new cans.

Homokinetic AXLE Boot Link cutting the CANS using Stock Boots boostnbenz
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/benz/boostnbenz.1baddsm.com/DIY/CVboots/

http://superturbodiesel.com/benz/boostnbenz.1baddsm.com/DIY/CVboots/

DrLou · #8 07-20-2014, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

I'm not 100% sure about the 4 and the 5 markings (it has been some time since I attempted this job) so I'll reserve judgement on that until the pictures show up =>

As for balancing - well I think they just made them as homogeneous as they could and kind of hoped it would all come good - I'm pretty sure they're not actually balanced.

I get the feeling you're over thinking this a bit - but I'd expect that from a doctor!

Anyway it sounds like you've done the easy bit - the next part ... how to form the cans without kicking the crap out of the hole that you will need to have "round" if you want the boots to to fit properly.

Before you carry on with the installation of rubber Febi parts I would really seriously consider an other manufacturer's rubber offering or at the very least some serious soaking in aerospace303 => I've know Febi rubber parts to crack within one Northern European winter (so not Canada / Northern USA cold)

Well, first: Gotta thank you guys - and others on this forum - for all the inputs/posts, etc. Helped me gather my courage to try this! Stretch, your DIY on the diff project was great, too... You're right; I've been giving it a lot of thought. While I'm in there, want to make sure I do the best work I can...

As I had already ordered the Febi/Bilstein boot kits, I moved forward. Turned out to be pretty easy, and I'd encourage any of you to try.

Couple of points:

- It was quite easy to grind the old outer (lateral) cans off. I ground almost all the way through, then did a bit of careful chisel work to crack through the last remaining bit of (warm, softened) sheet metal.

- Gentle removal of the axle's plastic end plug by pressing it out with a screw.

- Did not need a press to disassemble the spider joint - a three-legged Pittman Arm puller was sufficient.

- Meticulous cleaning, more cleaning. Verified that all the ball bearings are within 0.01 mm of each other. Really, after 30+ years and 400k miles? Gotta love that engineering.

- Was able to get spider back on with a 2 lb hammer and a large impact socket. Oil those splines!

- Stretch, decided to reassemble the legs numbered 4 and 5 in order - as they were. That's 4,5 - clockwise - as viewed from the hub end of the axle. Not a single click in these axles, and they flex beautifully. We'll see...

- Held the reassembled cans together with a couple of clamps (pressure on the splined end applied at the axle flange, not on the can itself - and only enough pressure to gently compress the can's large rubber sealing ring...

- Supporting the axle by holding the can body in my hand, I was able to roll the can seal over with some artful peening of the edge. Will probably finish this off by running it through my vise, but it is certainly holding together as it is!

- Only weird thing on this is that the larger strap clamps supplied with the Febi kits do not fit. Will either have to find longer bolts or larger clamps! Weird.

More later; will add photos. I neglected to mention the major surgery on my Trailing Arms, and the rust remediation and POR painting of everything. What fun!

Yes, have seen that guy's post on SuperDiesel; this was very helpful to me.

Stretch · #9 07-21-2014, 02:12 AM

There's a minimum force required to hold the spider back on the axle shaft. (5000N - chapter 35-660 para 17 so that's ~ 500kg - don't think it should be a lubricated fit) There isn't a circlip to hold it in place on the homokinetic axles. If it was so easy to pull off - I guess it was easy to put back on?

(Sorry I'm a bit concerned that this could come loose in use)

DrLou · #10 07-21-2014, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

There's a minimum force required to hold the spider back on the axle shaft. (5000N - chapter 35-660 para 17 so that's ~ 500kg - don't think it should be a lubricated fit) There isn't a circlip to hold it in place on the homokinetic axles. If it was so easy to pull off - I guess it was easy to put back on?

(Sorry I'm a bit concerned that this could come loose in use)

No, I only oiled the splines in order to ease reassembly - call it Good Shop Practice! I wouldn't quite call it easy to put back on; it takes quite a bit of hammering to get it back together - done carefully, and as squarely as possible.

That spider is on there tight, believe me. Even if it somehow(?) worked its way loose, there's nowhere for it to go once reassembled inside the joint. I think this is probably physically impossible, given the design of the joint and the tolerances once installed.

Overall, I'm quite happy with this part of the project, and I'd encourage anyone here to consider refurbing axles with the Febi/Bilstein kits. I'm gonna reverse the axles on reinstall, and I'm thinking I'm good for the next 400k miles!

Still to do:
I have a bit of click inside the differential, and didn't feel quite up to a complete disassembly/bearing replacements there. Am replacing the axle seals, but also wasn't prepared to handle the pinion bearing preload, etc., in replacing the pinion seal.

Driveshaft: Definitely time to replace flex discs (front one looks bad, rear looks perfect!), center bearing and shaft center support mount.

Oh, and my gearshift lever bushing is totally gone. This explains so much!

Diesel911 · #11 07-21-2014, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrLou

No, I only oiled the splines in order to ease reassembly - call it Good Shop Practice! I wouldn't quite call it easy to put back on; it takes quite a bit of hammering to get it back together - done carefully, and as squarely as possible.

That spider is on there tight, believe me. Even if it somehow(?) worked its way loose, there's nowhere for it to go once reassembled inside the joint. I think this is probably physically impossible, given the design of the joint and the tolerances once installed.

Overall, I'm quite happy with this part of the project, and I'd encourage anyone here to consider refurbing axles with the Febi/Bilstein kits. I'm gonna reverse the axles on reinstall, and I'm thinking I'm good for the next 400k miles!

Still to do:
I have a bit of click inside the differential, and didn't feel quite up to a complete disassembly/bearing replacements there. Am replacing the axle seals, but also wasn't prepared to handle the pinion bearing preload, etc., in replacing the pinion seal.

Driveshaft: Definitely time to replace flex discs (front one looks bad, rear looks perfect!), center bearing and shaft center support mount.

Oh, and my gearshift lever bushing is totally gone. This explains so much!

Let us know how the Rubber Boots hold up after several Years.
The Stock type Boots that Cardone uses started to crack after about 5 Years. When I removed them there was nothing to indicate what Company made the Boots or where they were made. There was a capital letter B and I think it was 15 inside of the Boot but it was otherwise unmarked.

Stretch · #12 07-22-2014, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrLou

No, I only oiled the splines in order to ease reassembly - call it Good Shop Practice! I wouldn't quite call it easy to put back on; it takes quite a bit of hammering to get it back together - done carefully, and as squarely as possible.

That spider is on there tight, believe me. Even if it somehow(?) worked its way loose, there's nowhere for it to go once reassembled inside the joint. I think this is probably physically impossible, given the design of the joint and the tolerances once installed.

Overall, I'm quite happy with this part of the project, and I'd encourage anyone here to consider refurbing axles with the Febi/Bilstein kits. I'm gonna reverse the axles on reinstall, and I'm thinking I'm good for the next 400k miles!

...

I think in this case not using lubrication on this joint is best - whatever - I'm glad to hear you're convinced the spider won't come off. It probably wouldn't get very far under normal use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Let us know how the Rubber Boots hold up after several Years.
The Stock type Boots that Cardone uses started to crack after about 5 Years. When I removed them there was nothing to indicate what Company made the Boots or where they were made. There was a capital letter B and I think it was 15 inside of the Boot but it was otherwise unmarked.

I too would like to hear how you get on with the Febi rubber. The kit I bought was so bad I bought some other boots from someone else - I had to keep the Febi junk, however, because they were the only people I could find at the time who had the metal for the cans.