1956 Dodge Truck Build with OM617
 

Some of you Benz diesel fanatics may be interested in my 1956 Dodge truck build … with OM617. It won’t be awesomely cool like T. Walgamuth’s 1939 Studebaker truck, but it should do as a shop truck.

Before
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/z.../1956Dodge.jpg

Custom build frame with Jaguar suspension.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/z.../IMG_1051s.jpg

I’m leaving the Dodge sheet metal in original patina, except for use of CLR on it. Current plan is to use the stock Mercedes instrument panel, inset in the Dodge dash. I may also convert it to a dash shifter for the AT. There were a couple of years (early 1960s) when Dodge trucks with AT had a dash shifter.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/z.../IMG_0814s.jpg

For now, the engine will remain stock, although I would like to replace it with an OM606 turbo some day.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/z.../IMG_1092s.jpg

Bob

Very nice!

Now get that engine cleaned up like the frame :D

+1!

wow, with that beauty, I'd want a pristine powerplant in it!

I didn't come to my favor forum to be called a fanatic. These are really great engines you know :D

Nice build.

charliebob = new hero.


I hope you intend to continue to use the old dodge steel rims? to me the old trucks just don't look right with newer wheels on them, but of course its a personal decision

Hey that's how I started out too wanting to use the patinaed original semi-rusty body, then it got into so much repair that it just wasn't that much to go ahead and paint it.

Yours looks better than mine did to start with too so more power to you! Your frame looks nothing short of awesome! That's not stock!

Great project!

(my stock wheels were too rusty to use, the center was very soft after the rust did its work, but I am sympathetic to the idea of using simple old school wheels and dog dish caps!)

Sweet old truck! The 617 should work well as a DD though stock it's not a ball of fire. I'm hoping mine makes more poop with the mods I've done.

NOT a fan of patina but to each his own. Mine is far from perfect (I keep finding small dents I missed) but will look pretty good going down the track. You really CAN do a decent OEM quality paint job in your home shop, and why does it need to be better than that?

Dan

Sweet truck! Looking forward to hearing how it drives.

i'd definitely detail that engine before you bolt it in

Do you mean the push-button shifter like in my 64 Valiant? Imperial Services sells a kit to convert the cable-shifter to actuate a later TorqueFlite lever shift, but pricey ($180). Looks like could fab anything yourself, so maybe use if for ideas. The M-B shifter is a lever, but rotates about a horizontal axis (Mopar's about vertical axis). At least both are on the driver's side, so the cable should reach.

Amazing work, especially the custom frame. The front strut suspension also looks non-Dodge truck. I am guessing you like the show WelderUp on Velocity where they do rat rods and monster diesels.

What you hiding in the back for a rear end? I've been dreaming about putting in a IRS in mine. How's that? ...wanting to modify it before I get it done!;)

Have you considered going with a four speed manual? That would be more in keeping with a 56 Dodge truck. If you need transmission and clutch pieces, I could tell you where to find them. I think it is going to be a beautiful unit when done.

That frame is awesome! I like the patina of the old factory paint. These builds are exciting to watch and be a part of, even if only in cyberspace. Keep up the good work and please continue to post photos.......Rich

Thanks for the compliments--they help to keep me motivated!

FWIW, here are my reactions to issues raised:

Wheels. I also prefer steel with dog dish hubcaps. Or flippers on a farm truck!! But I have not found any suitable. The problem is that most modern suspensions have high offset, with 5-6" backspace. This is needed for proper front suspension geometry and handling. Also, many of the old wheels won't clear big disc brakes. So, my options are very limited, especially with the Jag suspension.

Shiny frame, dirty engine: Guilty!! I plan to clean it up before installing all of the front sheet metal. Stay tuned!

Patina: I'm not a fan of rat rods, but I kinda like the patina on this old truck and, having grown up on a farm, love the "Twelve Oak Farms" on the doors. Eventually, I may make it shiny, but I plan to keep the patina for now.

Tranny: I'm keeping the "lazy man shifter" for now, mostly because I often drive in Atlanta stop and go traffic. Have thought a lot about adapting a Chevy 700R4 or 4R200 trans to get overdrive. We'll see.

Thanks again for compliments and for suggestions.

I like it but also would like a Cummins. They just belong in a truck. x3 on cleaning the engine. I would also take it down to the long block and install new gaskets and seals every where I could while it is out.

It is a Jag-u-war, with custom fab and air bag overload springs added. I'll post some "pitchers" tomorrow. The Jag suspensions have fallen out of favor with most hot rodders, but that is good because they are now fairly inexpensive and are plenty strong enough for our street trucks. The car they came came out of weighs 500-1000 lbs more than our trucks.

Can't wait to see your 39 Studebaker finished.

For just a shop truck/cruiser, I prefer the Benz. OM606 turbo would be ideal.

The Cummins 4bt is pricey, weighs at least 250 lbs more than the Benz, and will shake all of the fillings out of your teeth! I would love a 6bt, but really don't need a tow rig or the bad handling that comes from all the weight on the front. But an old Dodge dually truck with a long wheelbase and 6bt sure would be a cool tow rig.

This particular OM617 only has 137k miles (the car rusted away), doesn't leak and I have a stack of records about 2" thick showing excellent maintenance since new. For that reason, I don't want to take it down until necessary. But I will clean it up some :)

I sort of agree with Junkman - except the rear main seal. Unless it's leaking a LOT I'd leave it alone. I did mine and they are a stinker to do.

My OM617 has some sort of super gunk that was a PITA to get off. I tried pretty much everything and finally sent the cam cover and upper and lower oil pan off to the machine shop to be scrubbed up in their cabinet, which worked pretty well. I subsequently had these components powder coated and they look great. Might want to take a look at my build thread to see what I've done.

Dan

I would still pull the manifolds off, take care of the turbo drain tube seals, do the oil filter housing gasket(s), perhaps new seals in the turbo. Make sure the oil pan isn't going to leak. Basically everything except where you have to disturb the head. A gasket set isn't expensive and a leak free (old) engine is a joy.

You'll want to keep that truck if only to give it to your kids and 137,000 isn't much from 200,000. Besides, the engine looks nasty compared to that frame. I am by no means one to detail an engine bay but while you have it in your hand....

He does not mean that. The 1955 and probably the 1956 Chrysler automatics had a lever mounted in the dash. 1957 had the push buttons. I think that was the first year.

Richard

"Junkman" wants a shiny engine? Just kidding!! :-)

Appreciate the suggestions.

[QUOTE=rasper;3418776]He does not mean that. The 1955 and probably the 1956 Chrysler automatics had a lever mounted in the dash. 1957 had the push buttons. I think that was the first year.

I was thinking about something like the dash shifter in the pic below, which is a mid-60s truck, rather than the "typewriter" shifter, although that might also work.

The Benz shifter adapted to a cable should work.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/z...ashshifter.png

I can speak from experience that a 617 mounted with heavy V8 mounts instead of the soft factory mounts and the shock absorber will shake PLENTY.

You and me both brother!;)

[QUOTE=charliebob;3418786]Heh, that looks just like the dash on my 69 dodge parts truck...

5 cyl diesel engine is a better design and it'll shake less then a 4cyl, 4bt especially. I had a 4cyl 2.5 land rover diesel in place before the swap and at idle it'd just rattle every possible element that had any potential for rattling.
The 617 feels luxurious in comparison.

Nice project - you're living the dream

Is it an optical illusion, or is the driveshaft not straight? Mercedes shafts are designed for the differential to be exactly in line with the engine, they won't tolerate angles.

The front half of the driveshaft, which is "unmolested" Mercedes, is perfectly aligned with the crankshaft and transmission. The carrier bearing in the middle keeps the front shaft in alignment. The back half of the driveshaft is custom, with u-joints on both end. The slight angle of the back driveshaft is very small compared to most stock shafts. The angle is necessitated by the pinion in the Jag being offset, as are pinions in many diffs, solid axle and IRS.

It should not be a problem. If it is, I'll make a double driveshaft with u-joints on both.

Thanks for your concern. Sorry that the pixs did not show the front shaft.

SLIGHT offsets with a driveshaft are a bad thing... the angle needs to be in spec for the ujoint config. what is most important is the relationship between the two ends. they need to be exact, and held in relationship through the travel of the moving end.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.dana.com %2Fpdf%2FJ3311-1-DSSP.pdf&ei=EkeMVMXIOYn4gwTv5YPoDA&usg=AFQjCNEicONmP4XAFJc2TEbwUsDIoWofZw&sig2=ylfvwFw23LQfTU8B2_Sm1 A&bvm=bv.81828268,d.eXY

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.4xshaft.c om%2Fdriveline101.asp&ei=EkeMVMXIOYn4gwTv5YPoDA&usg=AFQjCNHKeQkpxacBuOBeAi6vZn8WskytzQ&sig2=ydf8l7F4 GfhsHhV7povE5w&bvm=bv.81828268,d.eXY

I think you're going to be just fine. If there were ever a poorly designed drive shaft it was Mercedes, what with one u-joint at a "slight" angle incorporated in the design.

If you consider this image from Vstech's document referenced above, you have the same basic setup, only this depicts a transmission/rear end setup from the side and your setup would have the setup depicted from the top. The important thing is that the two u-joint faces are parallel.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1418482891

Rock on...

By the way, if you decide to go with a one-piece driveshaft I could probably get you the CNC file to cut an adapter to go from the MB trans to a Spicer yoke.

I am using the ford 9" from about a 72 pickup. We used the Mercedes ds and the center bearing. The rear of the back ds we cut off and Michael welded on a u joint from a corvair which matched the ds perfectly and the diff.

I should get the truck up and driving first but am thinking of swapping in something like the jag IRS.

Hey up - I didn't really look too hard but I agree with John - this is going to cause trouble =>

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/z.../IMG_1051s.jpg

John is right this slight angle is too much and it will probably rip out the centre bearing rubber quite quickly - this part is not meant to be used this way.

Sorry mach4 I disagree =>

The MB design is a really good design - you have to consider the addition of the single universal joint as being there for the odd "just in case" situations (which effectively means when the motor mounts collapse!)

The design is all about resilient supports and keeping the propshaft straight. The motor is resiliently mounted; and the transmission; and the centre bearing; and the differential / subframe - these have to be aligned at the right height and in the same straight (dorsal) position along the length of the car. If this line is buggered up then you will end up with drive line vibrations. I don't think that any Mercedes (fitted with this resilient mount system) has suffered from an angle like that before.

My guess is that the system as it stands won't last long.

Mach4, I would like to have a CNC file if it is easy for you to get. Thanks for the offer. I haven't searched to see if these adapters are commercially available for the Mercedes bolt pattern, but I have used this kind of adapter with a Supra suspension.

Once I get everything else done and settle on a transmission, I had planned to have a single piece aluminum driveshaft made, with u-joints on both ends and a slip-shaft on the transmission end. But if this one works, I'll just keep the money in my pocket!

Thanks for pointing out to others that the top view of my driveshaft arrangement is the same as the side view in the Spicer illustration.

It is not clear from my pics, but the driveshaft arrangement follows the rules--and was planned based on the rules. U-joints are properly phased and pinion and crankshaft/tranny are parallel.

Heck, if it does not last, all I am out is the Spicer/Dana flange I welded on to the end of the Benz shaft.

I completely did away with the center bearing and had a 1 piece shaft built at our local driveshaft shop. Jags That Run makes an adaptor place to allow a standard Dana Spicer U-joint flange to work. While I have yet to drive the truck I don't expect any issues with this arrangement as it's been used in millions of cars for decades. Again, you might want to check my build thread.

But on the other hand, I'd try what you have. It looks reasonable to me, you already have it, and nothing really awful can happen if it's NOT OK. I didn't notice if you have a driveshaft loop or not but it might be a good thing just in case.

Dan

The misalignment is only 2 degrees, but it looks much more in the picture.

It should be ok, I'd think.

I believe the flex disks themselves are good for a degree so I'm still in the camp of you'll be just fine...and if not, other solutions are readily available.




.

(Remembering)

There was a similar discussion a few years back about the alignment or the misalignment of MB propshafts - the "proper way" of doing it with two UJs was also discussed.

I was interested enough to dig out the equations of motion for a UJ =>

Universal joint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can see that the rigid connection (third eq in that list) imposes the constraint that causes the joint to speed up and slow down during a full revolution. Without a properly phased opposing UJ there's going to be this continuous uneven running effect throughout the driveline. (The Mercedes trick is to keep the UJ straight so you reduce this effect to zero)

As the flex disc is flexible in all planes of motion (ie it doesn't have the rigid connection as described by that equation) I reckon it will die more quickly than a flex disc used in the Mercedes intended way.

I reckon it would be safer to fit a two UJ propshaft if the angle and the differential position has to be like that.

I appreciate concern over my driveshaft and suggestions for improvement, but I fabricated it by following the "book." Again, the U-joints are properly phased, and the pinion and crankshaft/transmission are parallel. Moreover, the 1.5-2.0 degree angle of the second driveshaft is within spec. A Dodge truck TSB sets the max at 3 degrees. If the MB carrier bearing is not strong enough, there are stronger alternatives, like on a Turbo Supra.

Doubters should check out angles of the 2 and 3 piece driveshafts in big trucks, or the angle in many 2 piece driveshafts like on the Jag or a Turbo Supra or Lexis rwd.

The MB driveshaft may have a perfectly aligned u-joint, but driveshaft specialists recommend 1/2 degree to keep the u-joint lubricated.

If I were building a driveshaft for a high torque motor or race car turing 10,000 rpm, I would use a totally different design and construction. But this one will probably not see over 3500 rpm and under 200 tq.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I suspect that this arrangement is temporary. If not, we'll see if the "book" is wrong!

I'm always open to suggestions and concerns ... but in this case I am unconvinced that this arrangement will not work. If the shaft "shudders" on a hard launch (well, as hard as one can launch with 125 hp!) then I will go to plan B.

Bob

As the always optimistic Red Green says...."its only temporary.....................unless it works!"

This is what he has done.

I wasn't very clear about that - I meant to say I reckon a UJ at the differential and a UJ at the transmission with a single shaft like the picture mach4 posted would be best for that offset configuration.

Another possible problem is a difference in gimbal size which will tend to push and pull the shaft.

Anyway - whatever

@charliebob

Please don't get upset with me - I am very keen to see how your project develops. You are indeed living the dream. Kind of like a fast and loud build but with out the constant whoo-ing I guess. Given half the chance I'll be doing something similar myself.

I hear Gimbles is a very large store!;)

Woooo!

I'm guessing that's a brand that hasn't made it to the right hand side of the world just yet! So I'll go along with it and say Woooo! Toooo!

Please don't get upset with me - I am very keen to see how your project develops. You are indeed living the dream. Kind of like a fast and loud build but with out the constant whoo-ing I guess. Given half the chance I'll be doing something similar myself.[/QUOTE]

No offense taken, Stretch.

I did a lot of research beforehand, and this is not the first driveshaft I have made. And the pic I posted exaggerates the angle. It may fail anyhow!

Hey, I'm not "fast and loud!" "Low and slow" is more like it ... with a bucket of bolts rattling around under the hood :)

Bob

Be aware that while there is a lot of great information on this forum, there is also a lot of just plain wrong information and opinion masquerading as fact. When I did my engine swap, an OM617 into an R107, the strong consensus was that "it couldn't be done, at least not without a hood scoop". Well, 65k miles later it's been an absolute dream - and no hood scoop! Had I listened to the naysayers I'd probably be driving a Honda. On the other hand there was some extremely insightful and informed information provided that made the swap easier and a ton better. It is what it is.

Analyze the data, make your own assent and move on....and please continue posting updates on your project.

1956 Dodge Truck Build with OM617
 

I'm sure you are aware, but more important than the angle you have going, is having the yokes in plane with degree offset to level ground.

More applicable to lifting a truck. With leaf springs on a straight axle it needs wedges between the leafs and mounts so both yokes are opposite angles to the ground. Or better yet, re welding the perches on the axle.

I've thrown one that way. Never found the sob.

I'm sure you know what you are doing, but in typical forum fashion I'll offer uneducated advice.

I would shorten that front shaft considerably and extend the rear one to decrease the angles. Or maybe it's possible to modify the axles and offset the diff. No experience there.

If concerned, I would put some hoops around it. Better chance of finding it, not hitting a car, or making your truck into a pogo stick.

Check out this crazy device. I'm surprised they don't have a center carrier bearing in it. But that shows you how much I actually know.

http://tractorvideos.net/ploughing-power-harrowing-in-one-pass-with-a-john-deere-7280r/

On with the truck! More pictures and videos please. My dad has a 49 Chevy. I offered a benz motor, but he's a cummins guy. Gonna regret the heavy 4bd2t I believe. But I'll build it.

Friends don't let friends put cummins in light weight old trucks! That'll ruin a potentially sweet truck. the BT4 probably weighs 8 to 900#!!!!

yikes! you gave him good advice.

So much win. I've been thinking lately and old IH pickup would make a sweet truck for a 617 swap