what do you think of 190D

Looking for a used car father had 1973 220d lasted 20 years so started thinking about MB diesel.Went to see a 1989 190D had 63k paint peeling from bad paint job on rear guy didnt except my offer yet ,offered 4500 wants 6k or more. Was also considring a 1982-84 300 sd have seen adds for sev with 120k to 160k for 2-3k please give me your views on these cars and choices what would you go with any probs with 190d

The 190D is a bit more modern and refined than the '73 you mentioned and the '82-'84 cars you have researched.

The 190D was the first Mercedes-Benz diesel to incorporate their "Engine Encapsulation System", which was essentially a bunch of acoustic padding combined with an engine and tranny undertray which totally contained the drivetrain in a sound absorbing chamber. The motor mounts and tranny mount are also designed to almost completely isolate vibrations from the rest of the chassis.

On the cars which have these parts in good working order, the engines are *very* quiet when the hood is closed, and very little noise or vibration enters the passenger compartment. In fact, it is almost eerie to start the car when the motor/tranny mounts are fresh--it feels like the ignition switch is connected to another vehicle!

Both the 4 and 5 cylinder 190Ds get very good fuel economy, and performance is certainly adequate. From personal experience I can say that engine longevity is most impressive, with only minor problems occuring infrequently.

-BUT-

The '82-'84 SDs are the "real" diesels. Cast iron block and head, no special sound insulation, zillion mile longevity, *decent* fuel economy (not particularly spectacular though), and probably slightly better build quality.

These cars are a good bit larger than the 190, which is fine by me! I'm 6 feet tall and 165 lbs, and I have to max out the seat adjustments (except the recline adjustment) on a 190 just so I can drive it comfortably. I find the interior of the old SDs to fit my tastes more.

It just depends on what you want--lotsa space with decent fuel economy OR a smaller car with kickass fuel economy...

-Joe

[190D22]

That guy is nuts if he will take nothing under 6k. The only way I'd do that is if EVERYTHING was in perfect running order. I bought my 190D for 3750 then turned around and put at least that much into it. After doubling the cost of my car it's a perfect little vehicle with a little rust. My solution when it gets to be too big of a problem is to get a new door. These things run very very nice. It's no speed demon, but then again it's no 240D lol. You're going to loose any race you get into, but no one can get 30mpg in the city with a traditional car!!! That's my argument against "damn dude your car is so slow." Slow in terms of racing, but everyday driving it's perfect. 63k miles is really low though, I bought mine with 136K. Sadly, I didn't notice the rust until after I bought it and waxed it. But it's something you've gotta live with. Drive it before you buy it, take it on the highway, run the AC, floor it, watch the coolant temperature with the AC running in the city, if it gets well over 100C it may need cooling system maintenance. Have the seller tell you every detail of work the car has had done to it.

If all is good except that paint, it will be a great little car. The 2.5s are a bit quicker than the 2.2 and have comparable if not better mileage than the 2.2. Good luck!

[gnolo]

Your engine displacement is really 2.2 liters on your 190D ?
I'm a little bit surprised because in Europe this engine doesn't exist. And how many cylinders has your engine 4 or 5 ?

Thank you

In the US market, the original 4 cylinder 190D (1984-1985) was 2.2 liters and 72bhp. In 1986-1989, all 190D had the 2.5 liter 5 cylinder, which was rated 93 bhp. 1987 was the only year for the 121bhp 190D 2.5 Turbo, which is a highly desireable model.

-Joe

[190D22]

In Europe the 190D came out as a 2.0. Something with US emissions or some stupid regulation we had (have) forced mercedes to put a 2.2 liter engine in it. Then in I believe 1986 they went up to the 2.5L, then they offered a turbo 2.5 in 1988(89?) in the US.

[jobah]

In europe there was a 2.0 4, a 2.5 5 and a 2.5 turbo.

In the US there was a 2.2 4, a 2.5 5 and a 2.5 turbo. The 2.2 was available from 84 to 85, the 2.5 5 was available from 86 to 89, and the 2.5 turbo was available in 87.

The early US 2.2's (first 1736 made) are very close to the euro 2.0. Afterh that the 2.2 had its own block which was different than the euro 2.2.

While the US 2.2 stopped in 1985, the Euro 2.0 was made through 1993.

In 1989 there was a redesign to the head (changed the angle of the injector among other things; it was called the diesel '89). I do not believe that it ever made it into the 190's (maybe it did in 89 but I do not think so).

IMHO, the 86 2.5 with 5-speed is the best one (less emissions material than an 87). Also, the 2.5 turbo is auto only in US.

Hope that this helps.

[gnolo]

Thank you for those explanations, now it's clear in my mind !

I can also add that in Europe the 2.0D existed until 95. This engine was mounted in the first C class and during all the career of the W124.

In fact, it seems there are more differences than I thaught between the US and the Euro models, probably due to the stricter US laws in the pollution field.

[mplafleur]

I love my 190D 2.5! It is an '87 and has 85000 miles on it. I bought it 2 weeks ago for $3000 in Dallas. I get 35-37 mpg combo highway and city. Acceleration isn't bad either.

3 of the 5 glow plugs are bad. I will be replacing them as soon as I am done typing this.

They did make the 2.5 Turbo with a manual. I saw one on e-Bay a couple of weks ago.

[jobah]

2.5 turbo with manual is a euro only. THere are no 2.5 turbos with 5 speeds here in the states.

I believe that the early C classes had the 4 valve head technology of the 604, 605 and 606. Even the late 124's in the US (1995) had 606's. I do not think that the 202's or the 210's ever had the 601-603 engines. Remember that the 604-606 are very similar but for the 4valve/head differences.

[gnolo]

The engines mounted on the Euro C class were :
200D -> 71cv OM601 (not sold during a long time)
220D -> 95cv OM 604 (which had replaced the OM601)
250D -> 110 cv OM605 (not sold during a long time)
250TD -> 150 cv OM605
220 CDI -> 125 cv OM??? (only for the latest models)