Any advantage to "squeeze type" hose clamps? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

shertex · #1 05-12-2015, 08:26 AM

I'm sure there's a proper name for these things...but you know the type of hose clamps that you loosen by squeezing with pliers? Do they have any advantage in certain applications over clamps that tighten with a screw drive? The reason I ask the question is that they are the ones used for the hose connections on the W210 duovalve. But they strike me as something of a pain to get on and off in such a tight space....my inclination, if I every replace a duovalve again, is to use screw drive clamps.

tbomachines · #2 05-12-2015, 08:39 AM

Yes - they provide pressure all the way around the hose whereas worm type clamps sometimes have high/low pressure spots, especially when you are using a clamp that is on the large side and has to be tightened down a lot. Also spring clamps provide constant/standard clamping power whereas worm/screw type has variable clamping. Basically screw type is better for most DIYers but automakers like the spring clamps since it's much easier to control QA.

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tbomachines · #3 05-12-2015, 08:39 AM

Also the spring clamps are a pain IMHO,

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shertex · #4 05-12-2015, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Yes - they provide pressure all the way around the hose whereas worm type clamps sometimes have high/low pressure spots, especially when you are using a clamp that is on the large side and has to be tightened down a lot. Also spring clamps provide constant/standard clamping power whereas worm/screw type has variable clamping. Basically screw type is better for most DIYers but automakers like the spring clamps since it's much easier to control QA.

Makes sense. However, if that's the case, then why are there worm type clamps on some of the larger connections? For example, upper radiator hose, lower hose. On my cars at least, I see both types of clamps but I'm not sure I see any rhyme or reason. Of course I'm not the original owner in either case, so perhaps clamps have been replaced.

tbomachines · #5 05-12-2015, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

Makes sense. However, if that's the case, then why are there worm type clamps on some of the larger connections? For example, upper radiator hose, lower hose. On my cars at least, I see both types of clamps but I'm not sure I see any rhyme or reason. Of course I'm not the original owner in either case, so perhaps clamps have been replaced.

I am not sure -- but I would guess it has to do with the hose material and thickness. I see them a lot on heater cores and smaller hose connections rather than larger ones. Also spring clamps allow for expansion and contraction while keeping tension vs screw clamps that can dig in or over tighten as the hose expands. I imagine the smaller hoses need more clamping force and are affected by heating/cooling/expansion moreso than radiator hoses. I would use the screw clamps and keep a close eye on it, most of us DIYers do anyways.

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Drago · #6 05-12-2015, 09:36 AM

too add, people tend to over tighten the screw type hose clamps cutting and weakening the hose. they make special tools just for those compression clamps.

leathermang · #7 05-12-2015, 09:42 AM

I have sworn by the screw type for decades.... a Lot decades ....for various reasons ...

NOW , after Pat Goss , PBS Autoweek , in the last few weeks came out against them ... I have changed my mind..

he pointed out that the normal screw type has a ' bump ' under the bottom mechanism which can put unequal and excessive pressure on that spot...
he pointed out that he has run across a lot of radiator outlets clearly damaged by that point pressure....

Some of the old clip type do suffer over time from decreased pressure.... and you have to install them from the end by taking off the hose end.....

Zacharias · #8 05-12-2015, 09:44 AM

If you want to minimize hose damage from clamps, you can get more expensive ones that are made in Germany or the Czech and are a smooth band, no notches, with a tensioner that won't allow you to overtighten. They distribute the pressure evenly all around.

I had them for my WVO stuff.

You will find them on eBay but probably under lab or factory equipment, not automotive.

funola · #9 05-12-2015, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I have sworn by the screw type for decades.... a Lot decades ....for various reasons ...

NOW , after Pat Goss , PBS Autoweek , in the last few weeks came out against them ... I have changed my mind..

he pointed out that the normal screw type has a ' bump ' under the bottom mechanism which can put unequal and excessive pressure on that spot...
he pointed out that he has run across a lot of radiator outlets clearly damaged by that point pressure....

Some of the old clip type do suffer over time from decreased pressure.... and you have to install them from the end by taking off the hose end.....

It took you decades and Pat Goss to point it out to you before you realized worm type clamps are inferior?

My VW Jetta has spring clamps on all the coolant hose connections and they are great, never any trouble with them leaking winter or summer. It's a 92 with 230K miles and all hoses are original to the best of my knowledge and still in exc shape. They are quick to R&R, In tight spots you need a special cable operated tool.

leathermang · #10 05-12-2015, 10:03 AM

I had never had any damage myself...
of course I am careful about cleaning the parts going together.... sometimes even using a proper sealant.... and placing the clamp behind any raised beads on the metal tubes...
and for the record.... the screw type are still SOP for AC connections that use rubber hoses.... and there are plenty.... they come with a ' measuring arm ' on them to locate them precisely behind the beads .....
I am assuming you meant Worm instead of Worn in your last sentence... Worn clamps of any type should be replaced asap...

edit ... for the record... a clamp is not designed to SEAL the hose to tube connection.. but to hold it in the proper place on the tube... the bead on the tube is for sealing...

Dan Stokes · #11 05-12-2015, 10:16 AM

I'll second the Euro-style screw clamps. Try for a good deal on them. These clamps are listed as "Normo Toro (European style) hose clamps. I don't think they are competitors with Pelican so I'm OK with posting their address. Good folks and great prices - note that the prices are for packages of (usually) 10 so they are cheaper than it first appears. In a pinch they have that style clamp at marine stores like West Marine but EXPENSIVE!

Dan

Cloudsurfer · #12 05-12-2015, 11:24 AM

Worm clamps SUCK. The "exotic," European screw clamps are great. Constant pressure, spring clamps are also great. One time crimp clamps can be great IF you have the appropriate tools to apply the correct clamping pressure.

Diesel911 · #13 05-12-2015, 11:33 AM

I am a defender of neither. However, they have Worm Gear type clamps that have sort of a springy Sheet Metal coil inside of the Clamp that evens out the pressure and at the same time prevents the Hose from squeezing out of holes; but cost more.
NAPA sells them and I used them when I replaced only the Rubber Hose on My Oil Cooler Hoses.
When I changed the Oil Cooler Rubber Hose I used tne Euro Norma Clamps (eBay) on the rear end of the Hoses and Oetiker Clamps on the front end of the Hoses.

In My notes I have the Spring type Clamps as you describe as E Z Clip Hose Clamps. But they show a special Tool that lookes like a Nail Nipper to squeeze and lock the Clamp on the hook.

The more obvious thing is that the Worm Gear Clamps have a larger range of sizes they can camp onto then the Spring Type Clamps.

In the pic is a shielded worm gear Clamp and a Norma Clamp. The Norma Clamp has the outer edges rolled/bent outwards so the edge of the clamp does not cut into the Hose and the hump has a sort of triagular projection in an attempt to even out the prssure.

The shielded clamp (you can see the coiled sheet Metal liner inside) is one of the ones I used when I replaced the Rubber Hose only on My Oil Cooler Lines. I replaced them with the Norma Clamps.

The Shielded Clamps worked fine but I used 2 Clamps on each Hose end and and the Shielded Clamps were crowded together. The Norma Clamps do the same job but the clamp bands are not as wide so that left room to space Clamps better.

leathermang · #14 05-12-2015, 11:39 AM

Lets mention here....that on anything ..... clamps..... bolts..... anything...... DON'T OverTorque it..... over tightening is also the major cause of gasket failure....

Diesel911 · #15 05-12-2015, 11:53 AM

I am not criticizing and saying torquing Clamps should not be done but I have never seen any Mechanic including myself when I worked as a Mechanic use a Torque Wrench on a Worm Gear type Hose Clamp.

And, if you wanted to there is a lot of Clamp Locations that make that impossible.

For Plumbing they have hubless Clamps/Sleeves that have Worm Gear type Clamps and you can get a special T-handle type Tool that will limit the torqe when you tighten the Clamps but I guess that there is more room to use it.

When the Car is being built they have room and special Tools and room before something is assembled to tighten everything correctly if they want to.