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  #1  
Old 07-21-2015, 11:50 PM
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Unhappy OM603 oil analysis leaves some worry and questions

It came back less than perfect, raising some concern:



Looks like I have some type of issue going on? What could cause this level of wear metals in the oil? I have a clattery lifter or two that quiet down when the engine gets fully hot (and are getting better when cold as I drive more miles with the synthetic oil in there) but otherwise I'd think that I have a very healthy engine. I consistently get 28-30mpg and seem to have a lot of power.

I've never had any running problems other than the one issue with the engine stumbling under load with a puff of white smoke on a grade on I-5 in southern Oregon which was documented here:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/367310-300d-road-trip-found-some-bad-diesel-along-way.html

Any ideas?

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Garage:

2017 Chevy Colorado Diesel (nanny state emissions)
2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 77k
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 156k - 28.7 mpg
1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 113k - 28.6 mpg

WARNING: this post may contain dangerous free thinking.
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  #2  
Old 07-22-2015, 02:57 AM
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I did remember that I replaced the vacuum pump at the beginning of this OCI. Could the break in of this pump over about 5k mikes contribute to the high iron, aluminum and nickel?
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RenaissanceMan Labs: where the future is being made today.

Garage:

2017 Chevy Colorado Diesel (nanny state emissions)
2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 77k
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 156k - 28.7 mpg
1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 113k - 28.6 mpg

WARNING: this post may contain dangerous free thinking.
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  #3  
Old 07-22-2015, 06:07 AM
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Noisy lifters cause cam wear. Every time you hear your lifters ticking, its knocking a bit of metal off the tip of the cam lobe. Inspect your cam lobes closely and you might notice a wood grain pattern on the tip and ever so slight sharpening of the the tip. I've seen this on several OM603s including my own with noisy lifters. It took me a while to find an OM603 cam in the JY that didn't have at least one or two worn cam lobes. If you have noisy lifters don't ignore the problem because it goes away after the engine warms up. Replace the lifters NOW to prevent anymore wear on the cam. The new INA lifters are externally different.

The old factory lifter left, new INA right. The verticaly channel helps maintain oil pressure in the lifter even when its pressed down by the cam.


You can also place a couple of small neodymium magnets on the metal top of your oil filter cartrige. This will trap any floating iron particles in your oil. You'll be amazed and disgusted at the black tar like substance you'll clean off the margnets after an oil change. A magnetic oil drain plugs also works well for this.

Not too long ago another forum member posted the PDF I attached below. You might find it helpful.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf tmp_9785-TDR57_Oil-1772099798.pdf (166.6 KB, 128 views)
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Last edited by tjts1; 07-22-2015 at 09:32 AM.
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  #4  
Old 07-22-2015, 07:23 AM
Diesel Preferred
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renaissanceman View Post
I did remember that I replaced the vacuum pump at the beginning of this OCI. Could the break in of this pump over about 5k mikes contribute to the high iron, aluminum and nickel?
That is a strong possibility. Even if you were clean clean clean during the install, there may have been dirt (casting material) and machining waste left over from the manufacturing inside the vacuum pump. That could easily skew the results.

I say sample again at normal interval, and watch the trend.

What did the oil sample before this say (if you have one)? If this is your first ever sample on this engine, you have no baseline reference. This sample would be a terrible baseline to start with, but you need to start somewhere.

If you recently switched from one brand of oil to another, the new oil may have better cleaning properties than the old, and now it is cleaning out some deposits, and THAT can make your results worse than normal as well.

I'm a big fan of Mobil 1 full synthetic oils. Mobil actually brought a lawsuit against another oil maker (Quaker?) for using the term "synthetic" when that company was using a blended synthetic base (or something like that), not a full synthetic like Mobil. The less-than-full-synthetic base is of course cheaper, so Mobil was losing market share because casual consumers would see both labeled "synthetic" and not understand there was a huge difference in the base stock, and sales would go to the cheaper oil. Ultimately Mobil lost that lawsuit, now one has to carefully research what base stock oils are used. My understanding is that Mobil and Amsoil both use full synthetic base stock, but I haven't checked that so take it with a grain of salt.

Bottom line: Now you have some objective information, and you can take actions (or not) based on that info. Realize that ANY oil you use now, which is diesel rated, is a far better oil than what was available when these cars were designed and built.
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M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
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  #5  
Old 07-22-2015, 08:00 AM
Diesel Preferred
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Not too long ago another forum member posted the PDF I attached below. You might find it helpful.
Thanks, that is illuminating! Sadly, no Mobil 1 testing. I also wish they would identify which base stock each uses, I'll bet the expensive synthetic oils are using the Group V base stock. One has to read this carefully, as early in the article the (correct) point is made that how an oil actually performs in your engine is not completely knowable based on virgin oil samples. In other words, the tests give some great info, but actual performance predictions are best made using actual performance results [in YOUR engine, I might add].

Later in the article the analysis guy seems to make very firm decisions based on the results. Although I agree with most of his conclusions, he doesn't repeat his qualification that actual performance depends on other factors that are not necessarily measurable or knowable (existing engine wear, quality of fuel, driver style/habits, environment, quality of maintenance, variation in engine part manufacturing, etc. etc. etc).
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/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
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  #6  
Old 07-22-2015, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxbumpo View Post
That is a strong possibility. Even if you were clean clean clean during the install, there may have been dirt (casting material) and machining waste left over from the manufacturing inside the vacuum pump. That could easily skew the results.

I say sample again at normal interval, and watch the trend.

What did the oil sample before this say (if you have one)? If this is your first ever sample on this engine, you have no baseline reference. This sample would be a terrible baseline to start with, but you need to start somewhere.

If you recently switched from one brand of oil to another, the new oil may have better cleaning properties than the old, and now it is cleaning out some deposits, and THAT can make your results worse than normal as well.

Bottom line: Now you have some objective information, and you can take actions (or not) based on that info. Realize that ANY oil you use now, which is diesel rated, is a far better oil than what was available when these cars were designed and built.
I just unboxed the pump and installed it without cleaning.

No oil sample before this -- I bought the car and changed it over to synthetic (it had always been run on conventional by the PO, who took short, infrequent trips in it)

What is a "normal" interval? I thought 5000 miles was the recommended OCI per the owners manual...
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Garage:

2017 Chevy Colorado Diesel (nanny state emissions)
2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 77k
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 156k - 28.7 mpg
1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 113k - 28.6 mpg

WARNING: this post may contain dangerous free thinking.
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  #7  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:26 PM
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By "Normal" I meant whatever you decide on. 5k miles would be my choice in your shoes, but you can always send in a sample early, say at 2.5k miles to get an idea of how your engine is performing. Your engine, your money, just throwing out some ideas.
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Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
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  #8  
Old 07-22-2015, 08:43 PM
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Got it, I thought 5k was a good interval. I'll send another sample at the end of this OCI.
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RenaissanceMan Labs: where the future is being made today.

Garage:

2017 Chevy Colorado Diesel (nanny state emissions)
2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 77k
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 156k - 28.7 mpg
1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 113k - 28.6 mpg

WARNING: this post may contain dangerous free thinking.
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2015, 08:51 PM
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Posts: 2,788
Your lab results show "insolubles" as 0.3%. If they mean soot, then you could safely use a much longer OCI without risking exceeding the soot load limit of 2%.

You could pay extra to have the TBN sampled, which would be another possible limiting factor. I think when the TBN goes below 7 or 8, assuming it started at 11 or 12, then you need to change the oil. Haven't studied that for years. Next limiting factor is oil viscosity.
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Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
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  #10  
Old 07-24-2015, 04:53 PM
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I don't know if this is helping or hurting, but I'm attaching the latest oil analysis on my 190DT (OM602), which has a similar motor. I had to add two quarts during this OCI, because I have sprung a leak in my oil pan. Make up oil was 50wt, which is why viscosity is high. So while not perfect, it's something to which you can compare.
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OM603 oil analysis leaves some worry and questions-oil.jpg  
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  #11  
Old 07-24-2015, 06:29 PM
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Hmm, food for thought. I am going to run my oil this time and see what comes of the next a analysis. I was definitely sad/upset that it came back like it did.

I have a feeling that some of the high levels are due to the new vacuum pump which I put in uncleaned and the change being a first run of synthetic over 5000 highway miles, where the previous owner made mostly short trips. I also pulled the sample 1-2 quarts into the drain since I'm used to a 4 quart sump.
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RenaissanceMan Labs: where the future is being made today.

Garage:

2017 Chevy Colorado Diesel (nanny state emissions)
2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 77k
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 156k - 28.7 mpg
1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 113k - 28.6 mpg

WARNING: this post may contain dangerous free thinking.
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  #12  
Old 06-08-2017, 03:49 PM
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O.P., have you done any more UOAs?
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  #13  
Old 06-08-2017, 07:17 PM
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I have not done any more yet -- I have only had one oil change between the one on this original post, and the oil in the sump now. I replaced the lifters this oil change, so I'll probably run analysis on the next sump full. So probably in about 2020 since I only put about 4-5k per year on the Benz.

I think the wear metals was from the new vacuum pump and possibly lifters. I will definitely post it up when I get another one done. Right now I'm sorting out a failed alternator and some nailing and leaking delivery valves.
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RenaissanceMan Labs: where the future is being made today.

Garage:

2017 Chevy Colorado Diesel (nanny state emissions)
2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 77k
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 156k - 28.7 mpg
1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 113k - 28.6 mpg

WARNING: this post may contain dangerous free thinking.
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  #14  
Old 06-09-2017, 07:57 PM
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I noticed that in addition to high wear metals, you have silicon levels about three times what they call normal. I wonder if you could be getting dirt into the engine. I believe I would check over the air filtration and breather system to be sure unfiltered air can not get sucked in.

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