Transmission ID and leak reapir 4sp - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rjz5400 · #1 09-11-2015, 12:52 PM

So I need some help here people, I am having trouble first ID ing my transmission.
Related to that I found a small weeping leak on one of the shifter input rods and I need to repair it so I can change the fluid and have it stay in!!

I am geussing there is a seal arond that shaft but do i have to pull the cover? or just that one rod? or all three rods..... never been in one of these before, but I have "dropped" one out of a donor so I could do that, in the dirt, with jackstands, alone..................

ID
Details.
Aluminum body
Steel back half ?
I have some pics of numbers ill post below
It says 240D on it in grease pencil (likely from a JY)
4 Speed
14mm Drain and fill plug

PICS

Obviously above the tailcone, behind the Guibo

Shifter input Subhousing? cover plate?

OK and here is the leak, it is dryish until I flex it in with my finger and then you can see the drop of what appears to be a gear oil (by smell and color)

Please help if you can, I dont belive this is original to this car, I belive it came with a 5 speed

but had this put in its place. It has a number stamped into it on the bottom but in the usual data flat area on the side there is nothing.

here is that #

leathermang · #2 09-11-2015, 01:52 PM

You need to do a serious cleanup first... .
hard to trust where something is leaking with that much and long standing leak...
also, you want to fix all the things which are messed up when you are in there .. not have to go back....

mannys9130 · #3 09-11-2015, 02:43 PM

On my 717.410 the ID part number is on the passenger side of the case stamped into a flat run parallel to the ground. You look for the 71x.xxx and that's the transmission identifier.

Frank Reiner · #4 09-11-2015, 03:42 PM

rjz:

The trans is an iron case 4-speed.
All three shift shafts in the side cover have o-ring seals; all should be replaced.
Although it is possible to remove/reinstall the side cover in the chassis, your whiskey bill will be much lower if you pull the trans, and do the reseal as a bench job.

What is the car in which the incontinent trans is installed?

leathermang · #5 09-11-2015, 03:47 PM

That would allow the front and rear seals to be replaced also...
and the pilot bearing in the back of the engine....

rjz5400 · #6 09-11-2015, 04:49 PM

I cant recall because last I pulled a tranny it was completely disassembled. Do I need to pull and balance or use stretch bolts or anything like that IF i separate the trans? or is it just
remove the crossmember,
separate the flex disk
hang the driveshaft to the side or remove,
unbolt the 6-8 bolts connecting the trans to the housing
and slide the shaft out of the pilot bearing?

Forgive my ignorant trans mislabeling please.

I suppose this thing is covered in the Haynes manual but is it to be trusted? also Frank is there a number for the "iron case 4-speed" for parts lookup? Thanks for the ID BTW. even though it is part aluminum the shifter input type is easily identified as the Iron 4-speed correct??

ANSWERS to the questions and suggestions.
I looked and looked for another number but thanks for the tip (717 *%#) Ill clean it up (leathermang) and keep looking as I go.
I have been meaning to lift the front up on stands and pressure wash the undercarriage now that I have fixed some of the obvious leaks up front.

Lastly this is in a Euro Delivery 300d BUT the data plate indicated a 5 speed(6 I think including reverse) but the JY writing makes me think the existing trans was put in sometime more recently and stateside as the car has spent most of its life here. (in the USA)

Thanks for the INFO!! ill keep doing my research and update with developments

leathermang · #7 09-11-2015, 05:30 PM

Unless you are under a dead line... do all the research you can before taking it apart...
Sometimes good instruction manuals ' require' that you have it in a certain position before loosening something... or they do not want weight applied in a certain direction.. don't want to mess up anything just taking it apart blind.... I am the professional at that..in the old days.... so discouraging....
I would not trust the Haynes..... but as a backup it may have better pictures of some angles when taking it apart....

Frank Reiner · #8 09-11-2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjz5400

I cant recall because last I pulled a tranny it was completely disassembled. Do I need to pull and balance or use stretch bolts or anything like that IF i separate the trans? or is it just
remove the crossmember,
separate the flex disk
hang the driveshaft to the side or remove,
unbolt the 6-8 bolts connecting the trans to the housing
and slide the shaft out of the pilot bearing?

Forgive my ignorant trans mislabeling please.

I suppose this thing is covered in the Haynes manual but is it to be trusted? also Frank is there a number for the "iron case 4-speed" for parts lookup? Thanks for the ID BTW. even though it is part aluminum the shifter input type is easily identified as the Iron 4-speed correct??

ANSWERS to the questions and suggestions.
I looked and looked for another number but thanks for the tip (717 *%#) Ill clean it up (leathermang) and keep looking as I go.
I have been meaning to lift the front up on stands and pressure wash the undercarriage now that I have fixed some of the obvious leaks up front.

Lastly this is in a Euro Delivery 300d BUT the data plate indicated a 5 speed(6 I think including reverse) but the JY writing makes me think the existing trans was put in sometime more recently and stateside as the car has spent most of its life here. (in the USA)

Thanks for the INFO!! ill keep doing my research and update with developments

1) No stretch bolts.
2) Generally driveline is removed.
3) The clutch housing is 2-piece; forward half stays with engine, rear half comes out with trans.
4) The trans type # is 716.0xx.
5) There were iron-case 5-speeds; way, way rare. If the car is a W123, Euro 5-speed (originally), it probably had an aluminum case Getrag box, and at some point an opportunist removed it, and replaced with the iron 4-speed.

EJHumber · #9 09-11-2015, 11:21 PM

Hello there, the leak you are showing appears to be coming from the o-ring seals on the shifter arms. I recently completed this job and took some pictures that you may find interesting/informative.

Here is the cover removed from the gearbox:

The inside of the gearbox:

EJHumber · #10 09-11-2015, 11:25 PM

Here is the the actual shift forks and the part number for the gasket kit which can be seccured from the dealer for around $50 (as of 9/1/15)

I know the pictures are not amazing, but they relay the infomation

rjz5400 · #11 09-12-2015, 08:13 AM

I dont know if "Amazing" describes them. I would go with "Invisible"

OK. I was giving you a hard time, but the pictures aren't showing for me. are they hosted somewhere and linked or?

Thanks for letting me know it is doable, ejhumber, You have succeeded in building a buzz for your photos!!!

EJHumber · #12 09-12-2015, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjz5400

I dont know if "Amazing" describes them. I would go with "Invisible"

OK. I was giving you a hard time, but the pictures aren't showing for me. are they hosted somewhere and linked or?

Thanks for letting me know it is doable, ejhumber, You have succeeded in building a buzz for your photos!!!

The pictures show up for me, is anybody else not seeing them? As an alternative, if you go to my profile I have an album titled "gearbox re seal" and the pictures can be found there.

mannys9130 · #13 09-12-2015, 10:09 PM

I can see the pictures just fine here.

rjz5400 · #14 09-13-2015, 08:40 AM

aha, now there they are!! IDK what happened. Thanks again EJ I'll study them as well.

Those pictures are kind of amazing, it seems easier now. there isn't really much to it, it seems. A paper gasket and three o-rings are all that is between me and a full/clean transmission

EJHumber · #15 09-13-2015, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjz5400

aha, now there they are!! IDK what happened. Thanks again EJ I'll study them as well.

Those pictures are kind of amazing, it seems easier now. there isn't really much to it, it seems. A paper gasket and three o-rings are all that is between me and a full/clean transmission

The gasket kit also contains all the other gaskets for the whole transmission (front and rear shaft seals, rear cover seal, etc) so if you don't mind your car being down for a few days, you may consider just pulling the gearbox and resealing it on the bench. In my opinion, it would probably take about the same amount of time to pull the whole gearbox and have easy access for cleaning and gasket replacement than to lay on your back on the ground and fight with the cover, the shift forks lining up, the gasket staying flat, etc. again just my opinion but you may consider it as it will also give you the opportunity to inspect the clutch itself as well as the bearing play in the input and output shafts.