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  #1  
Old 11-12-2015, 08:43 PM
fahrvergnugen's Avatar
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Olathe, CO
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Announcement; I'm an idiot... What damage have I done then? No axle circlip nor shim

Back the summer before last, I changed out the axles on my car. When I did so, I could Not get the circlip in for the right-side axle. This was before I had the service program to tell me of it's importance, and my technical help Was from a seasoned veteran but his health was not the best at that time... He said if I couldn't get it in, not to worry about it. I see now that we were wrong...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/367226-w123-240d-rear-axle-spacers.html

Now, the reason for me posting this is I am hoping to take a rough assessment of the situation before I open the diff back up again; what am I likely to find in your opinion?

Particulars; I've driven about 7K miles this way. I have a vibration on the RR that comes on at about 45-55mph, is it's worst at 55-60, and never goes away at any speed higher than that, it just lessens. The vibration is less likely to come on if I can keep a load on it and stay below 55, but as soon as I slow or coast, it will begin. THIS is the bit that tuned me into the fact that the lack of the clip was the cause for the vibration... EDIT--I should add, the rear springs on this wagon are weak, but the SLS is working. It sits a little lower than it should, and that may be an Added contributing factor here.

I had no idea there were different sized shims... I am not even sure I have a shim in there, honestly...

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1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)

Last edited by fahrvergnugen; 11-12-2015 at 09:31 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2015, 04:00 AM
greazzer's Avatar
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Worst case is that you have to "fix" a few things. All will be well. Take it apart and take your time, and anything can be fixed.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2015, 06:47 AM
JB3 JB3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greazzer View Post
Worst case is that you have to "fix" a few things. All will be well. Take it apart and take your time, and anything can be fixed.
X2. Open it up and look, you might get lucky. Ive had one pop out for who knows how long. I opened the diff to install a new crack free booted axle and the clip was sitting in the bottom of the diff
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2015, 07:11 AM
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If you want to check properly you need to remove the little differential cogs from the cage. To do this you need to remove the crown wheel and then you are meant to replace the bolts (for the crown wheel) - these are very expensive (for bolts).

I would replace the axial seals on both sides - these are cheap.

When you re-fit the axle make sure the cog does not wobble in the cage.

In the FSM there is a friction limit for these cogs when you rebuild the differential. This is adjusted by fitting thicker shims. It is likely this is totally messed up now. But in my experience every Mercedes differential I have taken to bits does not meet this friction limit - so I wouldn't be too worried.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2015, 09:16 AM
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We have seen lots of instances where people have relied on ' a trusted mechanic' without checking the FSM... and the results were bad.
The good news may be that the parts are modular.... you can change out the actual entire third member without dealing with the springs and rear suspension. So if you find it convenient to replace instead of trying to fix irregular wear on the hypoid gears... a replacement from a salvage yard is a very reasonable and legit alternative.
I highly suggest you find a paper copy of the FSM which covers this situation...
I changed out my half shafts on my wagon.... that rear Overhang on the wagon is a huge problem if you do not get the wagon high enough off the ground to work effectively... I did not... and was outside on the ground on my stomach doing this stuff... the worst mechanical job of my life due to that failure to getting it high enough.
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2015, 10:47 AM
fahrvergnugen's Avatar
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Thanks, gents. I'll get into this eventually...

I had thought about getting a better ratio rear end anyway. I'll let you know what I find.
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1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:07 AM
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Kind of bizarre any mechanic would suggest leaving the circlip out. As the axle normally extends and retracts. It probably does not extend back in your situation.

You might have gotten away with it. At worse you may need a used rear end from a wrecker. And maybe another axle for that side. Not much sense playing around inside the differential case if parts are needed or wear is evident. Just far cheaper to change it.
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
..... Not much sense playing around inside the differential case if parts are needed or wear is evident. Just far cheaper to change it.
X 10,000
This will be much clearer if you read the paper FSM regarding the third member... If you see any ' wrong wear ' indicated.... look for replacement.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2015, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
Thanks, gents. I'll get into this eventually...

I had thought about getting a better ratio rear end anyway. I'll let you know what I find.
Your TD has a 3:07 ratio rear end. The next higher is a 2:88 in the 85 W123 and W126SD.


I agree, time for a new mechanic for council. Him telling you the "C" clip isn`t necessary would
be like saying the Wrist Pin Clips are not necessary. After all the Cylinder walls will keep it
from going anywhere.....right? LOL


Charlie


sent from my pos computer
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1) Not much power
2) Even less power
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Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

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  #10  
Old 11-13-2015, 01:00 PM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
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For the cost of cocking about with C clips, seals and differential oil (money wise cost) I personally would give the old one a go and see if it turns out to be OK.

Automatically replacing with another unit of unknown quality might not work out best.

More often than not I find the devil you know is the better option.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2015, 01:17 PM
fahrvergnugen's Avatar
Yeah, THAT guy...
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Olathe, CO
Posts: 692
The trouble was, I couldn't get the stupid clip in place. As for the mechanic who guided me, he's been a friend and mechanical mentor for 25 years; everyone is allowed to cock something up in that amount of time... :-)

How many different sizes of spacers are there? Would it be prohibitively expensive to have one of each ready for when I do this repair? It is my only driver. If you have part numbers available, please post them. I can't get my EPC running just now.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------

1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2015, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
.... It is my only driver. .....
YIKES that makes it hard.
Even just having to mechanic on weekends is hard due to some Mercedes Dealerships limited hours of operation....
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2015, 01:36 PM
fahrvergnugen's Avatar
Yeah, THAT guy...
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Olathe, CO
Posts: 692
You aren't kidding.

Edit-- I replaced the axle seals at the time of the axles; they will probably be fine to remove and inspect the axles, correct?
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------

1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)

Last edited by fahrvergnugen; 11-13-2015 at 01:45 PM. Reason: DOH!
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2015, 01:37 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
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Location: Long Beach,CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
Back the summer before last, I changed out the axles on my car. When I did so, I could Not get the circlip in for the right-side axle. This was before I had the service program to tell me of it's importance, and my technical help Was from a seasoned veteran but his health was not the best at that time... He said if I couldn't get it in, not to worry about it. I see now that we were wrong...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/367226-w123-240d-rear-axle-spacers.html

Now, the reason for me posting this is I am hoping to take a rough assessment of the situation before I open the diff back up again; what am I likely to find in your opinion?

Particulars; I've driven about 7K miles this way. I have a vibration on the RR that comes on at about 45-55mph, is it's worst at 55-60, and never goes away at any speed higher than that, it just lessens. The vibration is less likely to come on if I can keep a load on it and stay below 55, but as soon as I slow or coast, it will begin. THIS is the bit that tuned me into the fact that the lack of the clip was the cause for the vibration... EDIT--I should add, the rear springs on this wagon are weak, but the SLS is working. It sits a little lower than it should, and that may be an Added contributing factor here.

I had no idea there were different sized shims... I am not even sure I have a shim in there, honestly...
As far as being an idiot goes we have all been there at one time or another.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
....Edit-- I replaced the axle seals at the time of the axles; they will probably be fine to remove and inspect the axles, correct?
Did you mean to ask if they can be Reused after this inspection ?
How much do they cost ?
Is it worth taking a chance on them leaking to save that much ?
I do not know how much they cost....

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