W201 / W124 5 speed shifter refurbishment
 

G'day Folks,

I thought I'd start a fresh topic on this in DD because there's a strong crazy contingent here who seem to think manual gearboxes are better than automatics! To be honest I can't stand 'em but I'm stuck with the one I've got for the moment so I thought I'd see what was up with the sodding thing.

Symptoms => 5th and reverse are not as good as they could be. Often I need to pull up the clutch pedal in neutral before reverse engages and 5th has always been a bit notchy. This could be a synchromesh problem in the gearbox but it all looked OK when I took it to bits =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/341253-717-412-5-speed-manual-gearbox-refresh.html

The unknown in the system after adjusting the shifter rods and replacing the bushings remains the shifter itself. So I'm now looking at that bugger!


##########

Removal of the shifter is trivial

If you can't get to this stage by yourself =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...er-removed.jpg

<= abandon all hope!

##########

EDIT before you get too carried away it is probably best to remove the reverse light switch

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ght-switch.jpg

I'll have to look up the names for all the parts in a bit so that I can do an exploded view of all of the loose bits later on in the thread.

For now I'll just show the progress of the deconstruction so far

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...sassembly1.jpg

Two obvious 10mm head bolts come out

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...sassembly2.jpg

Be careful it is spring loaded!

(No stress really - just kidding)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...sassembly3.jpg

Poings out quite nicely

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...sassembly4.jpg

After which the levers for the shifter rods come out in a group.

Whilst EPC has a nice break down of the positions of the washers and the spring washers it is worthwhile noting how they all go together again

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...sassembly5.jpg

Couldn't find any tie wraps (!)

I did find a use for a glove though...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...sassembly6.jpg

There's nearly always one left behind just after you tie the knot =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...sassembly7.jpg

A clear plastic end cap can also be removed

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...sassembly8.jpg

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...sassembly9.jpg

Fiddly little C clips on either end of a retaining pin can be pushed off with care and two electrical screw drivers

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...assembly10.jpg

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...assembly11.jpg

Little c clips - keep just in case (although they are also in the repair kit)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...assembly12.jpg

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...assembly14.jpg

The next stage will be to remove the two torx headed screws but I want to make sure I don't loose my place on that shaft

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...assembly13.jpg

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...assembly15.jpg

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...assembly16.jpg

Sorry the pictures aren't so great today.

The shortest length of that shaft pictured above is 34mm and the longer length shown in the last picture of the previous post is 69mm

EDIT => it turns out that measuring the position of the clamp on this shifter bolt is not necessary (see later on in the thread) - however if you need comfort blankets then perhaps this isn't such a bad thing to do!

Here's the repair kit I bought (turned out not to be 100% correct)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1242602539.jpg

Please note part number 1242602539 is not for the more common grouping of 5 speed shifters! This kit is for the reverse with the up and back to the left next to 2nd gear configuration...



...I've also found out it isn't exactly the correct part for the shifter I have. I can modify it quite easily to save having to go back to the dealership!

Disassembly continued
 

Shaft comes out like so

(I was worried about the position of the torx screw clamp but it looks like you just have to align a hole in the shaft with a hole in the clamp)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449330402

Next get the gear lever out of the housing

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449330402

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449330402

And then the push down spring for reverse

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449330402

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449330402

Spare parts confusion(1)
 

I'm not really sure what went wrong just yet but I'll show the problem

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449329847

The new part on the right has "two wing parts"

I'm just going to file the one on the right hand side off and then I've made the correct part.

The old part (LHS in picture) has a number #3 on the casting the the new part (on RHS in picture) has a number #4. The "double wings" won't fit into the plastic swivel casing I've got...

...to be continued...

Good step by step write up, THANKS!

One of the more frustrating things on my 190D was rebuilding the shifter...

I got Delrin bushings off a guy from 190REV and set about cleaning and rebuilding. The first time I was told to use antiseize (by the bushing guy) to lubricate the shifter. That turned dry and tacky within a year, so I removed the shifter and did it all again recently when I replaced the clutch. This time I used white Lithium grease, and it's fantastic. Don't use too much in the center reverse lockout plunger or it'll hydrolock and get jammed.

Thanks for the tip.

I'm planning to use some good quality Mos2 grease (much like the original black stuff you can see in the pictures).

I'll let you know how I get on with it.

Right - trouble in paradise
 

Finding parts with out decent EPC help is as always a bit of a problem.

One of these days I guess I'm going to have to get a subscription.

Still using the resources I have I managed to find the following pictures.

This picture is as close as I can get to the parts I have although I've not seen the bracket 104 before!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449402761

The other variant of the 5 speed shifter (where I got the number for the repair kit) is here =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449402761

Now this 5 speed shifter looks like it has been used for W202s W203s and SLKs up until this century / millennium

################

The problem with the repair kits:-

First picture - part 10 - repair kit does not seem to exist. This is NLA - I can't even find a number for it.

Second picture - part 14 - does exist and is the kit I have bought - part number 1242602539

So I could only get the repair kit for the wrong shifter. As shown above the biggest problem is the wings on the metal joint.

This metal joint is meant to fit into a different plastic support.

The plastic support I have is 124 267 01 40

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449402761

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449402761

And the metal joint don't fit

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449402761


################


Solution 1

Shave / cut off the edge of the expensive metal joint in the repair kit so that it fits into the plastic support

Solution 2

Possible solution might be to upgrade to a new plastic support. This is a 4 euro part at the dealership so I'm going to gamble and see if it fits.

I have a gut feeling that may be just may be in WIS there's information about an upgrade! But I'm unlikely to find that out for sure just at the moment.


###########

I'm going to see if solution 2 is going to work.

Looks promising
 

I was able to get the 4euro 51 cents support piece from the dealership today and it looks like it might fit. I don't know for sure just yet as there are some subtle differences.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449598085

1242670140 is on the left (my original now NLA part) and 2022670161 is on the right (the new surprisingly cheap for Mercedes bit)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449598085

I should be able to assemble it and check to see if it works later on this week (with any luck).

Bit late to ask, but did you make sure the 5-R arm on the side of the gearbox was screwed in tight and had no lost motion? That was the source of one of my headaches.

I know Mercedes is "standardizing" many parts...the wings you refer to may have something to do with the reverse light switch, which may be on the left or right side, depending on which shifter configuration you have. MBZ is probably just manufacturing ONE part now that CAN be applicable to multiple shifter applications by just modifying (removing one wing) for the specific shifter- as you observed...

J.G.

I remember your thread on that. I think mine's OK as I know the chap who pulled the gearbox to bits!

I hope Mercedes has started to standardise this part because I'm going with option #2 listed above. The "wing" as I'm calling it is staying in place and the cheap housing is being fitted to see if it works.

The wings fit inside the housing and help with a pivoting sliding motion for the lever as you slide the shifter from the left to right

Assembly (1)
 

Starting with the shifter lever

Fitting the new bushings to the alloy shifter assembly

I used a washer on either side to make sure the new parts weren't damaged and just started the pressing in process with a set of pliers

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449679862

I did this on both sides

Then I found some open ended spanners to use as a temporary block in the opening between the two bushings

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449679862

The spanners were quite tight in there for the next stage

Pressing in with my hydraulic press (total over kill - a decent vice would do just as well)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449679862

Note I'm pressing into wood as well (top and bottom)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449679862

There we go Bob's my uncle.

Assembly (2) Grease time!
 

My chosen grease is this one

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449680224

I don't expect it is easy to find the same brand outside of the Benelux countries so find yourself some good quality black MoS2. I'm pretty sure that's what has been used originally.

Manny (see post above) says his wheel bearing grease works too - but that anti-seize tended to bung stuff up. (see post #15 below as well)

Note the orientation of the bend in the shifter rod that attaches to the gear lever handle. (Not massively important at this stage as you can still rotate it if absolutely necessary - but it is good to get your head used to it)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449680224

You have to grease this steel rod before fitting it to the alloy housing - with my MoS2 lots of excess just got pushed out. Wipe off.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449680224

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449680224

With spring in place you need to push down the spring and insert the clip.

I found bent needle nosed pliers were good for this. A combination of finger and flat screw driver blade also helped with the spring!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449680224

Picture above shows clip going on - just push home with flat screwdriver blade

Assembly (3) more grease
 

Dreadful picture below shows approximately how much and where I applied grease on the alloy part before I fitted it to the new plastic housing.

(I hate Canon point and shoot cameras when they have to have the flash on)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449680173

As this solution (solution 2 see above) might not work I may get a second chance to get a better picture!

So anyway - install the pin again

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449680238

That's all for now folks.

Must cook decent lamb curry for dinner tonight. I might be back with this tomorrow.

I'll be curious how the Moly grease works for you. Does it smell bad? I did have a Moly grease but it must have EP additives in it because it smells bad (like gear oil) and I didn't want that in the cabin. The antiseize was HORRIBLE after a few months had gone by and I was thrust into the winter. The antiseize lost its grease quality and turned into a dry crumbly mess. The white Lithium seems to be holding up well, and it's winter now. Slicker than it's ever been.

My shifter had the original 30+ year old rubber bushings in it, and they had totally come apart leaving me with a spongey throw that felt like a spoon in pudding. There also seemed to be 30 year old coffee inside that contributed to the gritty sticking action.

As of now, I have a custom setup. Inside the shifter is a delrin bushing instead of the stock rubber one. It gives a precise feel to the shifter and I like it. WL grease inside the shifter itself on the washers and sliding parts, but the delrin bushings require no lube since they are naturally slick like nylon. On the underside I have delrin bushings in the shifter arms where they connect to the shift rods, but on the transmission gear selector arms I stayed with stock rubber. Silicone lubricates those rubber bushings. I stayed with rubber on the trans bushings because the delrin is VERY stiff and mechanical feeling, but because of that the shifter is very notchy feeling. So I left one part of the linkage with rubber to help dampen the notchiness feel that I dislike. This works well for my personal taste.

Since my pattern is

1 3 5
2 4 R

It isn't any help for me to post my diagrams.

Manny, I read on that 190REV site about the Delrin bushings, but there was
also a guy making bushings out of Brass or Bronze for a more positive firm
shift.


EDIT:

I was wrong, it is this site in the UK, click on engine/drivetrain and there is
thread on the shifter. some of the pictures are gone

Mercedes-190.co.uk



Charlie

sent from my pos computer
she`s ready to blow. :eek:

Thanks for the input Manny - I've corrected the info above

Much thanks for posting this. Its on the list for the 300TE.

I didn't even know it was a typo. Hahaha I thought you had tried the Lithium but didn't like it. It's straight now though. :D I bet Moly would be better, since it'll help with the metal sliding parts.

Charlie, yes I remember there being talk of bronze bushings as well. I went with Delrin because I had read excellent things about the product and it was self lubricating. Once I had gotten really fed up with my bowl of pudding shifter, I decided I wanted a really positive shifter. The delrin was kind of pricey (it was under a hundred bucks, but I forget exactly) but I think it's worth it since I love the feel. The one set of rubber bushings cushions everything enough that the notchy feel is able to be dealt with.

Bronze bushings would be a very simple endeavor. A lathe would make quick work of them.

Oh I forgot to say about the smell of my MoS2 - no smell - this isn't the cheapest crappy stuff you get for free with axle boots.

"Only the best for my POS W201"!

Assembly (what is it now 4?)
 

Right - getting the new alloy shifter piece from the expensive repair kit into the new plastic support is pretty easy once you figure out that the new plastic has a bit tighter fit than the old one.

It will only go in one way and fit all the way in

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ic-support.jpg

Now the (what I've decided to call the) shifter bolt needs to go in to the new plastic support.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449757448

Make sure the little guide on the end of the clamp goes on the correct way

Then add some grease

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449757448

Then align the clamp with the shifter bolt and the new bushings that have been pressed into the expensive alloy repair piece of the shifter lever.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449757448

All of my previous anxious measuring turns out not to be necessary =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...assembly15.jpg

(see first post - I'll go back and add a note there about that)

All you have to do is fit the bolt - bit of jiggling to get the pin in place and then push on the circlip on the other end =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449757448

...and there is just about enough space for a torx head bit =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449757448


Go easy on these small screws - I reckon I'm probably a relative of Mungo from blazing Saddles so I force myself to use 1/4" drive sockets for this so I don't bugger the threads.

Note with regards to position of the clamp
 

I forgot to put the arrow on the original picture so here it is...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449757696

...so make sure your get the orientation right!

Problems with assembly
 

The shifter rod connector levers that sit in the main plastic housing are buggers to fit

The metal spring washers are designed to apply a bit of stiffness in the system and they really want to wander about and do their own thing when you come to fit them.

Pain in the arse!

The force these washers apply is not trivial - look at the wear that you get on the end washers =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449758892

('Cos I'm on a bit of a budget after that expensive repair kit I've decided to fit the old in a reversed position - but this is a bit miserly as the cost probably isn't all that bad even at the dealership)

I didn't scrimp and save on the grease though

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449758265

However - the spring washers want to move and you get trouble like this =>

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449758344

All of these separate levers and washers and spring washers have a mind of their own! They all move about and make it seem like it is impossible to fit the shifter bolt as once the spring washers are in place the friction / tension in the system is too great to reposition everything...


...following doesn't work

1) Swearing
2) Pushing hard
3) Hitting
4) Wiggling
5) Crossing your fingers and thinking of England
6) Adding extra grease to try and glue the buggers in place
7) Stabbing viciously with screwdrivers

...


The list went on until I found the following solution

The solution I used to fit those selector levers and spring washers (1)
 

Clean and re-grease the parts

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449760094

Firstly fit the two end washers

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449760094

There's the washer shown above in the previous post (with the wear) and a plastic half moon strip that goes on the other end of the recess (that's the clear plastic part in the first picture above - in that picture on the left)

Then find yourself a long 1/4" drive socket that will fit in between the holes in these lower shifter mechanisms. It needs to be long enough to go into the plastic end cap - through the spring washers and the first shifter connector - but no further because you need to fit the other two connectors!

My 10mm socket just about did the job. My 11mm socket would have been better but for the serrated design on the outside of the socket to help you grip it with your fingers. A smooth sided 1/4" drive 11mm socket probably would have been best (but it is in storage)...

Fit the spring washers and the first connector lever and centre their positions by fitting the deep 1/4" drive socket.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449760094

You can't see it in the picture above but in this next picture you can just about see it in there (yeah thanks Canon)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449760094

With the 1/4" drive socket still fitted inside wiggle the other shifter connector rods into place.

Remember because you've got a 1/4" drive socket in there you can remove it by fitting in an extension and wiggle the bugger out.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449760094

The solution I used to fit those selector levers and spring washers (2)
 

Not over just yet!

Whilst the deep 1/4" drive socket can help position the spring washers on the inside, the behaviour of those parts needed to be corrected with pushing and shoving from flat bladed screw drivers!

Also the position of the lower connector levers needs to be in the correct place before you can fit the selector bolt and shift lever assembly

For this I used a cross point screw driver with a 6mm shank

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449761311

Right - there's now a 1/4" drive socket and extension and a screw driver holding the buggers in place. Plenty of opportunity to give the outside parts a few coaxing stabs with a flat blade screw driver if you think they deserve it...

...

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449761311

BEFORE you even think about fitting the spring - take it easy and fit the selector bolt so you get the final good position of everything first.

Remove the socket and extension

Fit the selector bolt assembly

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449761311

Once you know that selector bolt and shifter lever assembly will fit - remove it and then (and only then!) fit the spring

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449761311

Then fit the selector bolt and shifter lever assembly and get that bloody end cap on sharpish before those washers and parts decide to revolt.


###########


Whilst playing about with this I found it was probably best to remove the switch for the reverse lighting at an earlier stage!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449761311

(I've made an edit in the first post about this)

Finishing up
 

1) Don't forget to refit the reverse light switch

2) Don't forget to refit the gate plate bit (that I forgot to tell you to remove at the start of this thread!)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449762304

...Oh yeah and that rubber seal that sits on top of the transmission tunnel too...

3)

Remove one screw on that end cap at a time and refit with a bit of thread locker (don't over tighten Mungo!)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449762304

4) Bit of grease on the shifter bolt for good measure

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1449762304

And I'm calling it good.

Make sure you can get each of the lower levers to engage when you move the shifter bolt via the shifter lever.

#######


Disclaimer!


#######


I'm not getting out the bunting just yet - the shifter is not fitted to the car.

I do not know if everything is going to be hunky dory. Reverse might pop out - I might not be able to find 5th - perhaps the other gears will feel like they are AWOL - I just don't know yet if what I've done is good.

That new plastic support piece might not be compatible even though it looks like everything has gone together well.

Been some time since the last post!
 

Loads of other stuff has happened and as it turned out today (Christmas day) was the first time that I had the chance for a test drive. The car was put back together ages ago...

...1st works...

...so does 2nd...

...and 3rd...

...4th is good...

...5th is a bit crunchy still (not happy about that)...

...reverse can not be selected!

Bugger.

Oh well - it was a gamble using the newer parts on the older system.

It looks like I'll have to modify and get the old plastic bit back in there again.

Fun and games for the New Year I guess.



To be continued

Ahh bugger! I hate that feeling when I put something together and it still doesn't work. It usually kills my motivation and I go get something to eat and think it over. After a few hours or the next day the motivation builds up again.

Hope ya get it figured out, I was expecting you to say "It works great!". Machines can sure be a pain sometimes! Staying tuned...

I don't expect it to be too difficult.

I'm more interested in finding out why the amalgamation of old and new bits doesn't work. I'm guessing the sliding bolt that engages the three little "selector levers" underneath is a different design too...

Finally got round to it!
 

I took the shifter out again today and got the middle bit out so I could remove one of the wings (on the expensive bit) so it would fit in the old plastic housing (which didn't seem worn).

I taped it up to try and stop all of the swarf from getting inside it

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1451749065

...and then used a combination of a sanding wheel on a multi-tool thing and a rat's tale file to remove the metal.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1451749065

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1451749065

I considered a cutting disc / grinding disc but thought better of it.

Sanding wheel is slower but way way more controllable.

#######

Put it all back together and I have reverse!

So job done. If 5th gear isn't as smooth as butter I'll have to go back into the gearbox again...