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  #1  
Old 01-11-2016, 09:50 AM
is thinning the herd
 
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OM602 No-Start

Stopped by a fellow members house to look at his 300D 2.5 turbo that will not start. Glow plug light won't come on.

Checked the glow plugs, 3 come up as like 70-90ohms. 2 are open circuits. So it sounds like a full set of glow plugs are in order at a minimum.

He put a brand new battery in it because the old one was getting weak. Car turns over really strong but it will not start. It was 48* yesterday, I figured the car would hit eventually but it never did.

Stop lever jumps up when you key the car on, fresh filters, tank is full of fresh (i.e. winter blend diesel), and it drove to the parking spot.

I verified we were getting fuel at all 5 injectors.

Does anyone else's car no start at 48* without glow plugs? Car has around 200k and runs very well when it is running.

I know the red flag number 1 is potentially 5 bad glow plugs, but I still think it should have started without them yesterday.

Any thoughts?

This happens to coincide with him removing a radio from the car, diesels don't have immobilizers do they? If its turning over and mechanically injecting fuel I wouldn't think anything electronic could stop it from starting.

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  #2  
Old 01-11-2016, 10:40 AM
babymog's Avatar
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Turns over with fuel it'll start.

However, without glowplugs it won't unless really warm, especially with less than new compression, and by now you've washed the cylinder walls pretty well and aren't using engine oil to improve cranking compression. Also, plug it in, warm oil and faster cranking will greatly improve your chances. If it has the rear pump, you can also pull-start it (check your manual, don't know when this ended).

Sounds like you just need new glowplugs.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2016, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
Stopped by a fellow members house to look at his 300D 2.5 turbo that will not start. Glow plug light won't come on.

Checked the glow plugs, 3 come up as like 70-90ohms. 2 are open circuits. So it sounds like a full set of glow plugs are in order at a minimum.

He put a brand new battery in it because the old one was getting weak. Car turns over really strong but it will not start. It was 48* yesterday, I figured the car would hit eventually but it never did.

Stop lever jumps up when you key the car on, fresh filters, tank is full of fresh (i.e. winter blend diesel), and it drove to the parking spot.

I verified we were getting fuel at all 5 injectors.

Does anyone else's car no start at 48* without glow plugs? Car has around 200k and runs very well when it is running.

I know the red flag number 1 is potentially 5 bad glow plugs, but I still think it should have started without them yesterday.

Any thoughts?

This happens to coincide with him removing a radio from the car, diesels don't have immobilizers do they? If its turning over and mechanically injecting fuel I wouldn't think anything electronic could stop it from starting.
My first course of action would be to change out the glow plugs. I don't think that there is a hard and fast rule as to what temperatures a diesel will start without all the plugs being activated. I know that with my E300d, the car did start at around 50 degrees with one plug out, but it ran rough for about 2-3 minutes. When you mention 48 degrees, if the car was parked overnight, it is possible that the block may actually be colder than the air temperature. Good luck!!!
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2016, 11:28 AM
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I am not surprised by no start at 48F without glow plugs. I had similar experience on my 92.
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:08 PM
is thinning the herd
 
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Thanks for the insights. I was sort of thinking I'd washed the walls down as well.

We were hoping to get it started because it is now 12* out. The car is parked on the street, and we didn't want to have to tow it down to my shop to do the glows.
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:25 PM
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If you can plug it in, and get it up to 60C it should start... or you can put a shop light 75 watt or larger bulb on the intake for a few hours.
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:32 PM
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I might be wrong but I thought the OM602 had some form of electronic idle control. That could also be buggering you about.
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:35 PM
is thinning the herd
 
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I had issues with the EDS on both of my past 92 300D 2.5s. They'd still start and run with the EDS dead, but they'd only run at 400rpms.
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:52 PM
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Well it might not want to run at 400rpm when it is cold! Still something to consider perhaps if the basic pre-warming the engine in one form or another doesn't work.
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1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

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  #10  
Old 01-11-2016, 01:12 PM
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Ditto plug it in 3-4 hrs and if you can warm up the intake with a hair dryer with cranking it will start and smoke for a while. My 602 had a similar issue at -10 a few years ago and that's how I got it to run.
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2016, 01:21 PM
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The 124 anti theft in later years was crude and primitive compared to the 210.

Not sure which year they started the immobilizer in the 124 but it was just a simple relay that interrupted circuit "50" - the lead from the key to the starter solenoid. It was located behind the instrument cluster.

They did nothing to cut the fuel in these models.

Not like the 210 that completely shuts down the party if the DAS is not satisfied. About all that a disabled 210 will do is spin the starter.

And yes you will need some form of heat in the cylinder, that many failed GPs will be a literal non-starter.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2016, 08:28 PM
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No way will a prechamber diesel start at 50 degrees F. Maybe if you sat and cranked for 5 minutes straight...


There is no way the block is COLDER than air temp. That's just absurdity...

Try to heat the engine by some other method. Personally, I'd try the block heater and a hair dryer or heat gun in the intake.

Diesels work on heat, fuel, and air. Heat is absolutely critical to a diesel.
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2016, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannys9130 View Post
There is no way the block is COLDER than air temp. That's just absurdity...
That is possible parked outside under a clear sky. Outer space acts as a heat sink. If the sky is cloudy the water vapor acts as a blanket but under low dew point conditions you get radiational cooling.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiational_cooling
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The OM 642/722.9 powered family
Still going strong
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son’s DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2016, 12:49 AM
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Ignorance is a disease
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_bob View Post
That is possible parked outside under a clear sky. Outer space acts as a heat sink. If the sky is cloudy the water vapor acts as a blanket but under low dew point conditions you get radiational cooling.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiational_cooling
No... You're getting distracted.

Once the engine rejects heat and is equal to the temp of the atmosphere, it stops losing energy. To get the block to be colder than the atmosphere, you'd need to involve it in some sort of endothermic reaction. Remember, wind chill doesn't apply to things that aren't wet.
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2016, 04:46 AM
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Metal or solids can be and are often at a temperature lower than air. Condensation occurs because of this. After a cooling process has happened and a temperature equilibrium is reached (or a certain solid temperature is reached), air can warm up faster than a solid (sunlight for example) - and being a gas it moves about a lot more (than the solid). The heat transfer (say convection) within the gas spreads the heat more quickly than the poorer heat transfer interface between the solid and the gas. The gas is thin with a lot fewer "warm" particles than the thicker solid so it takes longer for the solid to warm up. (To speed up the process of heat transfer between gases and solids you need to have a flow of gas moving over the solid as in a heat exchanger / radiator)

When the solid is cooler than the surrounding air you can get condensation if the water content in the air is sufficient.

Whilst the solid is better at transferring heat within itself than the air if the air is heated first and the heat "needs to be transferred" to the solid it takes longer for the solid to catch up.

#########

There is another aspect to this though. Metal often feels colder than air. I found a nice explanation about this talking about the difference between the feeling of temperature of wood and metal =>

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-a-metal-object-feel-cooler-than-a-wooden-object-although-both-of-them-are-in-thermal-equilibrium-with-the-atmosphere

(Same thing as air vs metal I believe)

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1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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