Let's talk oil filter changing - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mannys9130 · #16 01-24-2016, 06:35 PM

A few things:

1. 3 dollar oil filters are bargain garbage and if you care about the engine, you'd step up at least one level to go for a well made filter. You'll need to research this if you care.

2. I use Mann oil filters and fuel filters because the oil filter comes with the canister cap O-ring and a drain plug crush washer for both the early style and late style drain plug, and the fuel filter comes with both O-rings for the center bolt. I buy the stem O-rings separately and change them every oil change, even though you could probably get away with doing them every other. If yours are brittle and squared off, replace them. I wouldn't use STP. I have in the past on a customer's vehicle, but I prefer to stick with Mann. Fram is also suggested by some people, but you MUST get the correct one made in Turkey. Some stores carry the Turkish ones, and some don't. The Turkish filter has cotton string in the bypass section instead of cotton fibers. Honestly, people will freak out about the bypass section but I have cut open several filters and have always seen very nice barrier that holds the loose cotton into the filter. I have never found any bits of the bypass section on the full flow pleated section, so none of the material is making it out and into the engine. It's much ado about nothing. Use a quality filter and sleep at night.

3. It's meant to be 1 oil change, 1 oil filter. You put new oil in with a new filter and run it for 3-5k miles adding make up oil if necessary. At the end, you start over again with new oil and a new filter. The new oil goes black after a few hundred miles. That's normal, so don't worry about it. The oil isn't "dirty" and doesn't need to be changed until you reach the mileage interval. You can add 1/2 a quart here and there if you need to. That's good, because it replenishes additives and dilutes wear particles.

4. The oil doesn't (or shouldn't) drain down out of the filter housing after shutting down. Don't believe it? Before you do your next oil change, check the oil level on the dipstick. Take the cap off the oil filter housing and pull it out all the way. Now check the dipstick again. It'll be much higher. If it drained down, the engine would take a long time to build pressure every time you started it.

babymog · #17 01-24-2016, 07:08 PM

I just used an STP last weekend, it was in stock and was the same Turkish filter that was in the FRAM box, I have also bought the WIX (same Turkish filter), ... when I order a batch usually I can get MANN oil and fuel filters but lately the MANN filters are also made in Turkey.

mannys9130 · #18 01-24-2016, 11:02 PM

If you're sure that these other Turkish filters are the same as the Fram everyone goes nuts over, then I'd say they must have expanded their product deployment. Before, you could only get them from Fram, and you could only get them some of the time (Pep Boys was the most likely source) from some stores.

I'll just stick with whoever gives me crush washers and O-rings. Like I said, the cotton doesn't bother me and I don't see a way for it to ever get out. The string is neater, but I doubt it makes a difference to a bypass filter.

babymog · #19 01-25-2016, 09:54 AM

I haven't found one yet that doesn't have the crush washers and O-ring.

strelnik · #20 01-25-2016, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

I just used an STP last weekend, it was in stock and was the same Turkish filter that was in the FRAM box, I have also bought the WIX (same Turkish filter), ... when I order a batch usually I can get MANN oil and fuel filters but lately the MANN filters are also made in Turkey.

Buy American made Niagara oil filters. That's what I use on my Citroens and they are a cut above. They make their money on industrial filters and the filters they have for auto applications are relatively cheap, about 6.00. we're talking filters that filter oil to about 20 microns and have bypass protection.

I have looked around and bought lots of Mann and Hengst oil filters on sale for 5-6 bucks.

I just bought 10 Mann filters for 50 bucks at a close-out. Got them in original boxes. 55.00 including shipping.

I do watch for that stuff and buy if I don't need them, since some of the cars use the same filters.

Ditto with anti-freeze. Every car gets the phosphate free stuff. I have found it on sale for 8.00/gallon (Zerex) concentrate, but you had to buy 3 gallons. I know I'll use it.

So until I change over to the phosphate free in the big trucks, I'll still have some green stuff for the all cast iron jobs, but only until the rest of the green stuff is gone.

BillGrissom · #21 01-25-2016, 03:07 PM

I always open the filter top and pull the filter up so it is off the bottom posts and let it sit so it drains. I let the pan drain for a day or all weekend (much longer than Jiffy Lube does). Then, when you pull the filter, it doesn't drip on the engine, though I place it right on newspaper. I always start draining w/ a warm engine.

The filter is a major pain on my W123's. You have to force the heater hose over and be careful to not trap any vacuum tubes under the filter cap. I had one leak from the cap, after a few months. The O-ring was permanently flattened and thus wasn't sealing well in the groove, and yes I did use the new O-ring in the box. Don't recall the brand of filter so I can avoid it.

If I had to choose, I would always change the oil at least every 4000 miles. Diesels build up much more soot, which is why CJ rated oils have more detergents. Indeed, many classic car owners use diesel oil, both for the better suspension and because some have more zinc which flat tappet cams appreciate. The filter may be still fine after 4000 miles, but how could you know? At least an old filter won't starve the engine of oil since there is a bypass valve (true also for spin-on filters). I wonder if Jiffy Lube would actually change your filter, given all the work and cost. You would have to stamp the old filter, then open the cap to verify.

mannys9130 · #22 01-25-2016, 03:57 PM

Letting the engine drain for a weekend or even a day is totally unnecessary. The injection pump and oil cooler hold a lot of old oil and it mixes with the new. It's fine. You don't have to get every last drop out. Warm it up, drain it until it has slowed to just a few drops and move on. I let it drain 20 minutes max while I eat something.

123mike · #23 01-25-2016, 06:03 PM

I'm back, you thought this oil change post was done. But no... I added 30w rottella oil, it's thinner and cleaner. I notice the oil pressure gauge goes lower at idle. Below 2 and takes longer to peg up to 3. The oil gauge is moving around a lot more than it did with 40w walmart oil. Does that sound weird? Mike

97 SL320 · #24 01-25-2016, 06:53 PM

In letting the oil drain a long time you run the risk of the pump losing prime. This dry start can do more damage than a few drops of oil oil mixing with new.

As for our original poster, thinner oil will have a lower oil pressure at idle because it leaks out of bearings faster, this is normal. Excessive oil pressure due to thick oil creates more drag , heat and reduces fuel economy however too thin an oil will squish out too easily causing other issues. Your 30 is fine.

babymog · #25 01-25-2016, 07:12 PM

If you're worried about the oil pump draining, pour a quart of oil down the filter housing before installing the filter. You'll be fine.

Regarding the oil pressure dropping, is this a turbo? You never mention what car you're discussing.

In the turbodiesels, there are oil squirters that cool the piston. These squirters (one for each piston) have spring-loaded valves in them, which will only let them spray above the spring pressure (1.5bar IIRC). What you typically see in these engines with warm oil is the pressure dropping from 3+bar above ~1000rpm, to around 1.5bar-2bar in steps as you slow the engine and each sprayer closes (usually some variation in pressure between them, plus proximity to the oil pump/supply). Once they are all closed there is plenty of oil flow at idle to other parts of the engine, and usually the pressure drops no further at idle.

Many engines are pegged from start to shutoff, even hot and idling with 5,000mile old oil. These cars need a new pressure sender or need to be plugged back in, ... the gauge should not peg as soon as it starts after changing oil or idling when hot. I'd prefer the gauge to drop to zero if the sender wire is unplugged, but I believe that our cars peg the gauges (or is that if it shorts to ground? I don't remember but it is somewhat common).

123mike · #26 01-25-2016, 07:53 PM

It's a 83 turbo engine. Since I killed my first engine running oil out of an unconnected oil cooler line. I watch oil pressure more than fuel gage and speedo

123mike · #27 01-25-2016, 08:07 PM

Babymog that is cool info on turbo oil squirts!. The donor turbo engine sat 4 years, my engine restoration consisted of change oil an filter, valve gasket, and a lot of gasket sealant around turbo return. Maybe thin oil is freeing up springs and things... Mike

mannys9130 · #28 01-26-2016, 12:18 AM

Why anyone would use a single grade oil is beyond me... Multigrade oils are superior in almost every way. That straight 30 is causing a lot of start up wear, a lot.

I'd think someone who destroyed an engine by an oil related cause would be a lot more careful about oil and lubrication in general. I must be wrong...

babymog · #29 01-26-2016, 12:09 PM

multigrade oils have their advantages, but almost all of them (except a couple of Group IV synthetics) use a thin basestock and a short-chain polymer "viscosity modifier" to reach the higher number, this viscosity modifier does not shear well and doesn't protect high-shear areas such as flat-tappet interfaces. Some industrial engines specify single-viscosity oils for this reason.

If the 30w oil you use is within the recommendation for oil in your manual, chances are you're fine.

mannys9130 · #30 01-26-2016, 04:20 PM

Synthetic multigrades and conventional multigrades achieve their two grades differently. Synthetics are much more stable. I stand by my claim. A straight 30 is going to be extremely thick at cold starts and it will cause oil starvation. It's even thicker than 15w-40 at cold, and 15w-40 is already too thick. 5w-40 is what he should be using.