Euro 300TD advantages

[dac]

Hi everybody,
I'm looking into buying a 1985 300TD wagon and came across a Euro model for $6k with 300k miles that's in great condition (practically professionally restored). What are your thoughts?
Though I think the Euro model looks better, I am a little worried about it. What are the emissions differences that I hear about? Does the Euro version pollute a lot more? What about differences in parts? Are engine/transmission parts mostly interchangeable with the American version?
Let me know your thoughts on this, and thanks in advance for the help.

[mannys9130]

The main difference engine wise was that the Euro has the M pump while USA cars had the MW pump.

It's better. More power is the best attribute. I wouldn't worry about emissions.

Engine and trans are the same as US, so plenty of parts available.

[Zacharias]

What Manny said. There would be a very small difference in emissions, so tiny I wouldn't concern myself with it.

Keep in mind it came from Europe, so it's hard to know what shape it was in prior to any refurbishment.

I say refurbishment because no car that came anywhere near restoration would be selling for $6k (unless the restoration was a decade ago). "Restoration" is one of the most abused words in the used car market and most of the time it means squat when seen in for-sale ads.

As for an opinion of the car, we would need full particulars and decent photos to give more guidance.

If you are willing to pay $6k, there will be many cars open to you and I would buy on the basis of condition and how it drives, not on whether it's got nicer bumpers, etc. Personally I would take an original California car over any euro import, any day of the week. But that is just me .

[Diesel911]

Is a Euro 1985 300TD wagon turbocharged?

Next is 300k miles is a lot of miles no matter how good it looks.

[Diesel911]

Is a Euro 1985 300TD wagon turbocharged?

Next is 300k miles is a lot of miles no matter how good it looks.

More then a few rubber (Motor Mounts, Trans Mount, Flex Discs, Oil Cooler Hoses, all of the suspension arm joints) parts on the car would be on their last legs if they have not previously been replaced.

All those items should be inspected as best you can. The Flex Discs and Oil Cooler Hoses should top the list.

$6,000 seems too much for that hi of amilage. $4-$5k might even be too high.

The My Type Fuel Injection Pump has O-rings on the Delivery Valve Holders that occasionally need to be changed. It is not a bad job but at least 3 Members have gotten into trouble doing it. So it is a job you need to be extremely careful with.
The good news is there is more room on you Engine and you don't have to remove much to change the Delivery Valve O-rings as you do on the 6 Cylnder Engines on the lager models.

In shot it is a good looking Old Car but still and Old Car.

[cooljjay]

Originally Posted by dac

Does the Euro version pollute a lot more?

Oh I love this one! If your worried about pollution....I would look at a used prius...

As was said, we need a link to photos, description....something before we come to conclusions....

I say this because a lot of people will slap euro bumpers on a w123 and call it a euro....

If its a true euro with a non turbo and 4 speed....With little to no blowby....would be a great car....being a turbo at that mileage...it may only have a hundred or less thousand miles left...

[Diesel911]

I left out the Rubber Boots on the CV Axles as an item to inspect.

In general if 2 Engines were treated in the same manner and had the same things happen to it an engine with 300K on it is going to pollute more then one with less milager.

[dieselbenz1]

That car likely will have hand operated windows and a less complicated heating system may not even have ac. Check and double check the rear suspension that is a high price item to have repaired. If it has the 3rd row seat that would be a bonus. I drove a 123 euro wagon for 22 years without much problems but did change the rear suspension.

[86_MR2]

is 3rd seat rare? my wagons got one, I ve never even tried to open it, got a sub back there in a fairly large ported box.

[mannys9130]

Yes, the 3rd row seat is a desirable option to have. If you don't use it, leave it closed up so it's in good condition. If/when you sell the car you can remove the sub if you owner wants to use the seat.

[86_MR2]

yah i wouldnt let my sub go with the car(and i dont plan on letting the car go till it rust to nothing or gets wrapped around a tree), its not some generic kicker set up. This is a correctly tuned and ported box i made for a sundown audio sa12. As i said I leave it folded up, i actually did open it up once and it looked immaculate. good to know though.

edit: not to "thread jack" as this is a little off track but i was wondering, what about the roof racks that have the thumbscrews to move the crossmembers back and forth, is that desirable? I noticed that a lot of the cars that have racks dont still have the crossmembers or they arent the moveable ones, anyways just wondering because my wagons got em.

[dieselbenz1]

Yes those racks although mostly useless for carring anything are worth a lot.

[MTUpower]

I'm not of the opinion that the "M" pump give the engine any more power than the MW found in the USA versions. The only real advantage is the lack of the early non turbo AC controller box found in 78-81 w123's with the 617. The 240D(616)/euro(617) AC are the same and less problematic. It may also have non power windows which some prefer. While many also prefer the smaller euro bumpers for the looks, in the city they provide almost no parking protection against idiots who park by feel. If you get rear ended they do nothing as well.

[vstech]

Euro import date is used... so an 81 imported in 85 will have an 85 date... keep this in mind.
If the wagon is a true euro it will not have automatic climate control. It should have dual heat temp knobs. Mine has an aftermarket ac system.
Also, if it's turbo it will NOT have the M pump. It'll have the same MW pump as the us wagons.


We need pics to help your decisions. ..

[Mark DiSilvestro]

All US versions of the 300TD came with automatic transmission, power windows, and ACC - automatic climate control. By '82 they were also turbocharged. IMHO, after 3 decades, all these 'mandatory options' are potential money-pits. Keep in mind that these options were also availible on European models. I've seen Euro W123s, here in the US, with power windows and ACC, as well as automatic transmissions. For me, the point of having a Euro version of a W123 300D/CD/TD, is to be able to enjoy the cars as they were equipped for many European buyers - without most of the luxury options & complications that were mandatory on the US models. Plus I just prefer to keep my vintage vehicles as simple as possible.
So I have an '84 Euro non-turbo 300TD with factory 5-speed, manual heat & AC, and manual windows, But it does have a third-row seat and the factory towing package.
Unfortunately after import, these cars have often been modified or 'federalized' more or less. When I bought mine, it came with a US speedometer, US front bumper and a badly mangled Euro rear bumper, which I wound up replacing with a US version as I was unable to find a decent Euro rear bumper at the time. Similarly, since both Euro Hella headlights were broken, I also replaced those with some spare US sealed-beam & fog units that I already had collected for a 240D. So my Euro TD now looks exactly like the US version
Despite these changes, and the lack of a turbo, the car is still a decent performer, thanks to the manual-tranny. A friend once told me "These cars feel 500 pounds lighter with a stick-shift!"
Since then, I've been lucky to find a correct Euro speedometer, a complete set of decent Euro W123 wagon bumpers with all the trim, brackets, lights & hardware (including the bumper-mounted red rear fog lamp) plus a Euro 4-band Becker Europa cassette-radio to replace the PO's crappy Asian radio, at the Virginia Beach Pick-N-Pull. I also bought a good set of Bosch Euro W123 headlights with the vacuum height adjusters from a friend.
Though I'd really love to put this car completely back to it's original European appearance, unfortunately too many other projects have come up in the past few years. Besides, since I use this car in the real world, and not as a trailered show-car, with all the idiots on the road, my US bumpers certainly give me much more peace of mind than the minimal European ones would.
So for now I drive a Euro TD in disguise.

Happy Motoring, Mark