what part is this? (82 300d suspension/steering) - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kuene · #1 05-03-2016, 02:57 PM

while replace my rotors/calipers I noticed that the rubber boots on these parts (r/l)are gone. this pic is looking at the front left one, from behind the caliper:

is this the Control Arm Ball Joint? If so, how major of a job is it to replace it myself? Do I need do deal with compressing the springs or any other special tools?

Thanks in advance

-kuene

dude99 · #2 05-03-2016, 03:03 PM

Lower ball joint. This is a big job on a w123. The springs need to come out.

kuene · #3 05-03-2016, 03:13 PM

figured. i may just get a whole front suspension kit and have a shop do it all, just be done with it.

dude99 · #4 05-03-2016, 03:16 PM

Don't install ANYTHING other than lemforder or genuine MB parts if you do the front end. Everything else is garbage and you'll be doing the job again in short order....

kuene · #5 05-03-2016, 04:45 PM

agreed with that dude99. I'm doing the idle arm (lemforder) kit myself, thought i might tackle some other stuff. But i think I just need to find a suspension mechanic who will do it with my parts (don't think i want to spring for genuine mercedes, though maybe).

Blazemaster · #6 05-04-2016, 02:25 AM

I just replaced these on my w123. It was a half day project. If you need to do anything else to your front suspension or brakes now would be the time. I completely remove the spindles from the car to get the ball joints pressed out, and getting the new ones in was not fun.

Mine looked ok, the rubber boot was fine and grease was still inside, but the joint was shot.

snapped_bolt · #7 05-04-2016, 12:25 PM

I just replaced both lower ball joints on my '79 240D. I didn't use a spring compressor.
The lower control arm was supported by a small jackstand while the car itself rested on a larger jackstand.
Remove brakepads and caliper, and hang up the caliper on a steel coat hanger so the hoses are not damaged.
Use a puller to remove the upper ball joint.
Remove hub cap.
Remove contact spring inside hub.
Loosen 5mm allen screw on wheel hub retainer.
Remove hub retaining nut.
Pull out hub and brake disc, and place on clean surface. Keep krap out of the grease.
Rotate wheel carrier to allow placement of OTC 8149 remover on lower ball joint. ( I just bought the OTC 8149 on Ebay a month ago for 19.99 with free shipping. Seller is TRADERVAR). Both ball joints dropped free easily with this tool.
Wheel carrier is now off the car. Immobilize in a large bench vise with soft jaws, or find a BRAVE volunteer to hold the carrier so the ball joint end is up. May be a little tricky!

Find a 27mm (or 1 1/16") socket, and place over end of ball joint. Drive out ball joint. Yours looks a little rusty- it might benefit form some PB Blaster, maybe a few shots over a few hours, or overnight. I tried a 16-lb sledge in the vise, but since the ball joint was nearly at my shoulder height, it was more comical than anything as I drove out the first ball joint.
On the second ball joint, I used a 3-lb ball pein hammer. Hit the socket square, but don't try to drive it out in one strike. Increase the force until you see the joint beginning to come out, and try not to hit it any harder. If it starts moving, it will gradually get easier. Excessive force may cause the socket to fly out in any direction with force.
The old ball joint will come out unless some cowboy has welded it in.

Remove the boots carefully from the new ball joint.

I used a C-press I bought form Harbor Freight about 9 years ago for $30. Currently the similar tool is $89, you can get a better deal with coupons.
Examine the C-press to ensure both faces are parallel to each other. If not, grab another one. If the faces are not parallel to each other, the press will want to slip sideways as you use it, making the job more difficult,
or perhaps slipping off the ball joint and marring the surface.
Use the cast plate in the C-press kit with the largest opening on the face on the bottom side of the ball joint. There needs to be space for the bottom of the ball joint to protrude when properly seated.
Align the top of the C-press carefully and begin pressing. Set the C-press in place so it won't rotate as the screw is turned. This will help keep the C-press aligned properly. Do not attempt this if it will not stay aligned.
I used a HF 25" 1/2" drive breaker bar with a 40" cheater to torque down on the C-press. Keep turning until pressed home.There is a noticeable difference that comes suddenly when this happens. You can also see the top side seat when you are done.
Remove C-press.
Reinstall the rubber boot on the new ball joint working the clips around the boot with a tiny screwdriver, orienting the clip ends toward the front of the car.
Reinstall wheel carrier on car. Assembly is the reverse of removal, with the exception of fastener torque.
Inspect the wheel hub grease. Replace if needed.
Reinstall wheel retaining nut. Tighten to FSM spec.
Tighten 5mm allen bolt.
Reinstall caliper, using new bolts.
Reinstall brake pads, if there is yet life in them.
Get the wheel and tire back on.

========================================

This is a good time to replace the upper control arm bushings as well, if needed.

I didn't mention "spring compressor" because it is not needed.

I have a KTC-A1030 spring compressor coming in a day or two, if the shipper does not decide it needs to see shipping facilities in other cities first. A SPRING COMPRESSOR is a MUST for doing the brake rod bushings (in front lower control arm), the lower control arm bushing, the lower control arm, and the spring itself. Do not attempt any other spring compressor (outer coil types). This must be done with an internal (in side the spring) compressor.

! Use only Lemforder of Mercedes consumables in the front end. By the time you have repaired your first ball joint, you will appreciate the effort required. If you truly enjoy this, feel free to select parts with a proven high failure rate!

I replaced both ball joints, one upper control arm, and the tires are now not leaning in at the top as they were. They are also not wearing on the inner tread as they were. I still need to go in for an alignment, but that will be after the lower control arm bushing/ brake rod bushing/guide rod mounts are replaced. The front shocks and all tie rods etc. are new.

I hope this helps. If you don't have access to a big vise, member funola has an alternate method for immobilizing the wheel carrier, which he considers "redneck"- but, if necessity dictates, it works fine.

Use FSM torque values and procedures.

This job, according to alldata.com is 3.1 hours per side (I believe), I did my second one in a little less than 2.5 hours. If you decide to look into a shop doing this job for you, multiply 3.1 by their shop hourly rate to determine labor cost. This job is certainly is an achievable DIY, and many members have done so.

If a shop quotes $100/hr labor you are looking at about $700 for just the labor, parts are extra. You certainly can save at least $550 on the job. Get the tools, follow the instructions, and pay YOURSELF the $550 you saved.

NO NEED FOR A SPRING COMPRESSOR WITH THIS JOB.

Once the car is back off the jack stands, get yourself the adult beverage of choice. Not while you are doing the job. Do it right, and celebrate!

Good luck!

snapped_bolt

Junkman · #8 05-04-2016, 01:33 PM

The people that say it is a 1/2 day or simple job without a spring compressor either are GREAT mechanics, got lucky, are over simplifying or plain lying. You need to remove the springs, hubs etc until all of the parts including the control arms are in your hand. Then you need to figure how to get the bushings and ball joints installed in the parts. Then you need to reassemble.

Some parts may be rusted and not want to come out ie pins that hold the control arm in. You'll either have to skip anything related or figure out how to cut them out then order replacements which will mean more down time. This is your 1st time and there is a learning curve. You'll also want to do sway bar bushings if they need refurbishing. Mine didn't and it is not a trivial job because the brake master is in the way and has to come out or be loosened which is another learning curve.

You may as well do brakes and wheel bearings while you're there. What about handling any rust that you find? I'm too cheap to pay shop rates on what was a $500 parts cost job as that would have been more than the car is worth and I'd still have some tasks before being satisfied with the car as a daily driver.

That said, it steers beautifully but I have plenty of vehicles and can afford to have any of them down.

charmalu · #9 05-04-2016, 02:46 PM

Snapped Bolt, that is a great write up.

I agree with Junkman, as the parts do not just easily come apart.
Sometimes they and sometimes they do not.
it is just time consuming.
I have an air powered Die grinder, 3/8 butter Fly air ratchet, and 1/2" drive impact that helped.
And a couple BFH.

and some of this

and finally some of this.

Iam now going through replacing everything on the 80 240D. Have parts all over the shop floor.
Finally got all my parts.

I agree to use Lemorder parts. They are all still available, the one for the lower outer Control arm are difficult to find.
Meyle and URO are the most common to find unless you go to the dealer. think they are $54 ea side.

To pop the Steering Knuckle at the upper Control Arm, I used 2 hammers.
Loosen the nut a bit, hit both sides of the Knuckle part, and the shock waves will pop it loose.

Remove the bolt in the end of the upper Control Arm, and the Bolt under the hood that holds it to the body.
Remove the SB Bushing and wiggle the arm out.

The passenger side, I had to remove the Battery and Tray to get that bolt out as there is a bracket that holds the 2 AC lines
Which was in the way. Just to get to one 8mm screw.

You will need the MB Spring Compressor if going deeper and removing the Lower Control arm.
You will need to make the hole larger to drop the Spring Compressor rod into the spring.
I use my Die Grinder and one of these HF tools. Item 68830

I`ll use some POR to seal off the wound.

Used this tool to pop off the Tie Rods. Item 99849

3/4 in. Ball Joint

This worked good for me on the 85 300D and the 240, as I don`t have the OTC 8149. Works but is marginal.

Here is a list of all the front end parts.

Upper Control Arms
123-330-46-07 Left
123-330-47-07 Right

Lower Ball Joint (2)
116-333--09-27

Control Arm Bushings (4)
116-333-40-14

Guide Rod Mount (2)
123-330-13-35

Control Arm Bushing (2)
126-330-00-75 It is for a W126 but recommended here on the Forum over the 123 part.
123-330-13-75

Lower Control Arm Bushing outer. (2)
123-330-14-75

Drag Link (1)
123-460-15-05

Tie Rod Assembly (2) Recommended if yours are too rusty to adjust.
123-330-18-03

OR

Tie Rod Ends
000-338-50-10 Left Hand Threads (2)
000-338-52-10 Right Hand Threads (2)

Idler Arm Bush Kit
126-460-08-18

Steering Dampner
000-463-51-32

You may want to replace the rubber spring pad. Only place I could find it is on Pelican Parts
123-321-13-84 (2)

You may want to replace the two Sway Bar bushings on the Fire Wall.
More complicated to get to. Have to remove the Battery and Tran and I think the MC and Booster.

In my case Iam almost to 389K. Did the ones on the 85 300D with around 360K and they were Really wallerd out.
Iam 1/2 way there, so now do I want to remove the Booster and MC....hmmmm

Here is a couple good threads.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/179284-write-up-ball-joints-lower-control-arm-bushings-tool-review-pics.html

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/323469-lower-ball-joint-separator-w123.html

Here is the E-Bay listing for the BJ tool Bodyart27 shows in his thread.

Mercedes Benz W213 W126 W220 Ball Joint Installer Tool | eBay

Charlie

funola · #10 05-04-2016, 03:49 PM

To r&r the lower ball joint, the springs do not need to come out. I've done that job twice.
If the ball joint has no play, grease + a new boot is a lot less work than replacing the BJ. I'd suggest using an Energy Suspension dust boot and not the one that comes with the BJ if you want it to last.

snapped_bolt · #11 05-04-2016, 04:52 PM

I am reporting only what happened to me. That's all. My personal experience. Rust was not an issue, and the ball joints had not been welded in by some cowboy shade tree (or is that bar stool?) mechanic.

The first side took over 4 hours. The 16-lb BFH didn't help at all, I nearly gave up. The second side went faster because I had the experience from the first side. Finding the 3-lb cross pein hammer lifter my spirits immensely!

I am sure the fact that the control arm is nearly free of rust altogether helped with this job. Everything came apart "by the book", that is, nothing was stuck or stubborn, although the ball joints gave me a run for my money!

This is also the "daily driver". There is a certain sense of urgency when tearing the car down like this. It's got to be together!

I was not speaking of replacing the guide rod bushings, the inside lower control arm bushing, or the front spring itself. THOSE all require a proper spring compressor.

As to being a liar, I assume you are referring to myself, and all the other members who have followed this procedure without significant deviation. We are all alive and well to tell our personal stories. As I said, I didn't encounter rust issues like others; my application of PB Blaster was less than 15 minutes as I gathered tools.

I WILL be replacing the guide rod bushings and inner lower control arm bushings in a few weeks. If you are concerned with my claims, you are invited to come up and watch me do these. Now I do not know how long this will be since I have never done it before.
What I do know is that Klann advises AGAINST using an impact gun on their spring compressor. Interesting, because the Mercedes FSM clearly illustrates a rather large impact gun on an extension, tightening the spring compressor. For the extra $500 or so, I will shave off about .080" of that hole as that seems to be the only functional difference between the Klann and some of the "copies" we see today, that is, the copies have a slightly larger OD requiring the "shaving" of the hole at the upper spring perch to allow the tool to pass through to the spring. If Mercedes was using a Klann in the FSM picture, were they ignoring the manufacturer's warnings? At any rate, it seems clear that there are NO coil spring compressors on the market that match the quality of the spring compressor shown in the FSM.

Rant off.

charmalu, thanks for the positive comment. No, I cannot speak for every possibility on this job. They ALL start out the same, just like the FSM, and then we get into our own repairs and find the

is super

and now you are like

and you haven't even started the job! I know! BTDT!!! Thanks for posting the parts listing. I would have, but I would have lost every reader had I made my post any lengthier!

Cheers!

snapped_bolt

Junkman · #12 05-04-2016, 05:25 PM

@Snapped, didn't mean to throw stones. One way is to simply replace the 1 ball joint that is bad. That leaves the remaining ball joints and bushings in whatever deteriorated state that they are in. My results when using that approach have always been that the car drives like the tired old piece of trash that it appears to be. Spending ~$500 on parts and investing the time to install them completely refurbishes the front end makes it drive like the luxury car that it was designed to be. I always lean toward fixing the system because I want to be done and intend to keep the car.

The OP asked about a ball joint with torn boot in a control arm with cruddy looking bolts hence my response to repair the system which requires a spring compressor. Everyone makes his own decision.

I've done exactly 2 SDs. Both have rusted bolts that had to be cut out. I anticipated the bolt problem on the 2nd car and ordered an extra. I still took/wasted time messig with the bolt instead of cutting it out because the bolt turned freely but wouldn't move fore or aft.

Regarding lower ball joints, 1 fell out. Two came out with effort and a BFH and the other was given over to the local indy with a little cash and he used his shop tools. The indy also has a fancy special made for the job Mercedes ball joint tool that pressed the joint in quickly and easily. I "could" have bought one of the cheap tools and futzed around figuring that out. I decided to use some of the universal Ulysses S Grant tools that I keep on hand specifically for those jobs that I get tired of or don.t want to mess with. They can easily fix most anything.

Regarding guide rod mounts, you don't need a spring compressor for that (usually with some techniques). You likely need a press unless you use the car and threads of the guide rod to force it out of the carrier. There are big bushings in the carrier that may (usually) be dried out and need replacing. Those can be knocked out with a hammer and installed using threaded rod, lube and washers. The carrier is aluminum so don't use gorilla techniques on it.

jt20 · #13 05-04-2016, 05:28 PM

Snapped bolt's explanation is excellent. you can do it that way.

However, when giving directions to others on the internet without knowing their experience and skills, its best to encourage safety.

The springs should should come out to do this job safely and it makes the job easier if you will doing more than just re-booting the LBJ. (not Lyndon B. Johnson)

For reference, I have taken a knuckle off without supports and the spring stayed in place. that doesn't mean it will happen that way every time.

jt20 · #14 05-04-2016, 05:31 PM

And often, you will not have a really great press that can push the new ball joint in.

You'll end up with a makeshift drift and a hammer to get that in and you'll wish the entire was knuckle was on a bench of some sort. ...or a nice log.

spring compressor is the proper, safe way to deal with this.

/rant

funola · #15 05-04-2016, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt20

And often, you will not have a really great press that can push the new ball joint in.

You'll end up with a makeshift drift and a hammer to get that in and you'll wish the entire was knuckle was on a bench of some sort. ...or a nice log.

spring compressor is the proper, safe way to deal with this.

/rant

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Chassis/33-400.pdf is the FSM procedure to remove the steering knuckle, in which the stubborn ball joint is pressed into. Nowhere does it mention removing the spring, nor is the spring compressor listed in the special tools.