87 Turbo Diesel

[ChinaClipper]

Hey folks, I was wondering if anyone else could comment on their experiences with the 87 300D. Looking to add one to my stable but can't seem to find many folks who have had much to do with 'em. First, do they have any electrons in the fuel injection system? Second, do the trannys have vacum modulation, and the attendant problems, like the 123 diesel automatics? Third, do the trap ox replacements work well? Reliable? Is 60K miles too long a time to wait for the trap ox replacement? Fourth, anyone use synthetic or semi-synthetic oil in the engine, good or bad?? Any other info a diesel nut would wanna know would be great! Thanks!

['79 Super Turtle]

While you are waiting for responses, you could try a search at the top of the page for '87 300D. I don't know what kind of results you'll get but you may find some posts about that year.

[jcyuhn]

I've owned an '87 300TD for about a year and a half
now. It's a wagon, but the same basic car nonetheless.

Yes, there are some electrons in the injection system,
but not too many. The Electronic Diesel System (EDS)
controls idle speed, EGR valve, and boost modulation.
The car runs better with the latter two disconnected
It is possible to start and drive the car with the EDS
system failed - I've moved mine while the computer sat
on a shelf in the garage. Idle speed is down near the
'want to stall' level, but that's about the only effect.

Tranny is essentially the same as the 123 cars. Similar
vacuum modulation. Similar set of problems. My experience
is that chasing out any vacuum leaks and tweaking the
Vacuum Control Valve (VCV) fixes things right up.

The trap oxidiser has been fixed forever. They take it
off the car and replace it with an oxidation catalyst
downstream of the turbocharger. On a 124 chassis car,
the entire exhaust system is replaced. I had this done
on my '87 wagon in December 1999. Because it was a
recall, there was no cost, and my local dealer supplied
a loaner car while they performed the work. The car has
better power and better economy following this change out.

I've just recently started using Mobil's Delvac 1 5w-40 in
my diesels. There's no problem running synthetic oil in
this car. In fact, it tends to quiet down the notoriously
noisy hydraulic lifters.

It's a great car, highly recommended. The OM603 engine is
perhaps not quite as bulletproof as the earlier OM617
five cylinder, but has much better power & smoothness with
the same or better economy. These cars sometimes experience
cracked cylinder heads; an expensive repair. I've been
told this failure is associated with overheating resulting
from trapox failure, hence may be moot with the trapox
removed. Don't know, don't care - it's *so* much nicer to
drive than a 123.

[goldenbear]

My 300 SDL has the same engine as the '87 300D - OM603.96x. Second only to perhaps the OM617.95x engine used in the '81-'85 300 SD and '83-'85 W123 300D, the engine is proving to be one of the most durable Mercedes diesel engines EVER! Time will tell.

That said, there are many little things about the car the can add up quickly if the car was not driven properly. The foes of the trap oxidizer (TO) have been rectified with the oxidation catalyst replacement of a few years ago. While there may not be many vehicles with a lot of miles following replacement of the trap system, the oxidation catalyst has proven success in the later OM602 engines of the early '90's.

One of the potential trouble spots for this engine is the aluminum head, which sits on the cast iron block. Most of the head failures that have occured happened early when the TO was still in the system resulting in excess heat. With the TO out, head failures do not appear to be as common. I know in excess of two dozen MB owners with this engine that have NOT experienced a failed head. Just keep an eye on the coolant temp and DO NOT allow it to get into the red.

Which leads me to another area that could potentially result in head failure - that being overheating caused by a crack in the plastic radiator neck. Most of these problems have occured as the result of overtightening the clamp on the upper radiator neck. (MB has a special tool for managing the torque on that clamp.)

The injection pump and vacuum pump have also had histories of early replacement. In the case of the injection pump, I would STRONGLY recommend you look for a car with higher miles. I purchased mine from a family member and got a good deal on a pristine car. Unfortunately, I had to replace the injection pump and head gasket due to the car sitting for so long without having a lot of miles put on it. These cars are meant to be DRIVEN! Expect to replace the vacuum pump at ~150k mi - ~$400.

The OM603 engine is quieter, smoother, quicker, and, if driven properly, requires less fuss that its earlier cousins. The hydraulic lifters do not need to be adjusted every 15k mi and the timing chains seem to last A LOT longer than in OM617 engines. The transmission is, in my opinion, perhaps the best mating transmission in MB diesels to date at that time. I know of several vehicles with this engine that have in excess of 300k mi - and are still very strong. Good luck in your search!

[240Joe]

I had an 87 300sdl that I bought with 85000miles and sold at 185000. I would NOT buy another. Just too expensive to keep on the road. At 185000 it needed the whole front end reworked, valve work (lots of blue smoke on start up), a leaking A/C, a vibration that I think was a bad half axle, and a leaking transmission. Each of the jobs would cost about $800 each to repair at the dealer....Yahoo!

I lost about $20,000 for the 100,000 miles I put on it. I don't consider that a good deal.

I paid $3500 for a 240 in great shape with 150,000 miles on it. I'll put 100,000 miles on it with minimal repair cost. Then I can try to drive it more, or sell it for 1500 and move on to another.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

Joe

[surfblau]

I am (I think) in the market for an 87 SDL. I found one in Salt Lake that has about 115k on it and just had its cracked head and injectors replaced.

My brother test drove it and said that it was beautiful, but that the idle was really loud (at 600 rpm). The minute that he touched the pedal, the noise went away. Both he and I have 300TDs and don't think that the idle on those vehicles is especially loud.

From your guys experience, is the normal idle of the 300SDL really that loud (it was described as "metal on metal, rattling sound")?

Please let me know if you have any input.

thanks

[mplafleur]

I 'think' that the idle speed is supposed to be ~700 rpm. The difference could be all it needs.

[JimSmith]

surfblau,

I am not sure about the 1987 300SDL, but a W123 Diesel will make pretty nasty metallic banging when the air cleaner mounts fail. These are little rubber elements sandwiched between two metal ends with threaded extensions. When they break (the rubber fails) the air cleaner housing bangs around and makes a nasty noise. They are a couple of bucks each and take pretty little effort to replace. I have done the change, and recommend doing them all instead of only the failed ones. Heat and time are what ruin rubber, so if one or two fail, the other one(s) are about to.

These items are the subject of a number of threads, so a search if you need more information should be the quickest way to get data. Hope this helps, Jim

If you hear alot of mechanical noise at idle, and it goes away once you step on the gas, your injection pump timing is probably off.

Mine's got almost 270K now, and its in the shop for tie rods, stabilizer bar and ball joints (some vibration up front), but I put up with the front end for about 30K miles before I decided to have it done.

I just made this, I put together all the serivce records I got with the car, and added the once I have and the services I did, this should give you and idea of operating costs..

http://www.zemkowski.com/87300sdl/service.html

[psfred]

I've had my 87 300D about 8 months now, and have fixed the major problem (bad repair on the IP pressure valve holder seals -- see those threads if interested).

I fixed a vibration problem at idle incidental to fixing a problem with the center dash vents not working -- the vacuum system around the EGR and turbo recirc valves is shot, with the result that I had no vacuum to speak of anywhere else. Tranny shifts very nicely now instead of slamming into third, and the roar at idle vanished.

I have no idea why fixing the vacuum would fix an idle shake UNLESS the car is a second gear sitter, downshifting into first only when you open the throttle. At any rate, this may cure the cold climate control thing, too -- temps consistanly ran very low with the heat on, probably because the floor vents were closed and all the heat ran up the windshield and into the temp sensor pipe!

I have 177,000 miles on this car, and it drives like a dream. No oil consumption to speak of (half a quart in 6000 miles or less), very nice. History unkown, however!

Peter

[surfblau]

Well I have pretty much inked the deal on the 87 SDL. We are just hammering out the final price somewhere between 7000 and 7900. Apon further questioning with my buying agent/brother, it came to light that there is no hood pad in this car, that plus what I have heard on this post make me somewhat reassured that the load idle can be fixed by a new pad and some Delvac 1.

It is going to be hard to wait for 1 month till I can pick it up, but that is somewhat made up for by a roadtrip from SLC to montana and back to SF through canada. Hopefully, I will get to take a couple of days off in the middle at the ranch and change the trans fluid and otherwise get to check out the guts of the new member of the family.

With any luck my one year old can take his first date out in this car (like in 15 years)...



alec

[jfikentscher]

I have an '87 300D Turbo. 175,000 miles. I love the car. I bought it a year ago with 135000 miles. This was an off year for me usually run 50-60K/year. The car performed admirably. No major problems. Gets about 28 MPG and only uses a little oil, 1qt/oil change. I would recomend this car to anyone. The only problems are the sunroof cable has come loose, and the blower motor has stopped. If anyone has the procedures to get these problems fixed please send them to me. For the blower motor I need the procedures to remove the wiper assembly. I already have a printout of the blower motor.

Hey, another Jersey high miler, I drive about the same mileage per year as you also.

Try to make it to our diesel meet on 6/2, check out the link at the top of the page.

[per eriksson]

Go to my site and download 6 pdf files named 77-***
They contain info about the sunroof mechanics.
http://www.geocities.com/jevlar

I'll look up the ones about wiper assembly later.