Speaking of BS, this is another of my cut n' pastes from BangShift:



HAPPY,HAPPY, HAPPY!!

Took Mutt to Carolina Dyno again today. Though I'm still not wild about this type of dyno you CAN get some good things done on them.

1) The clutch holds GREAT! So, at least at these power levels, that's a done deal.

2) Check the graphs. We'd been messing with the boost controller at the track last year so I knew it was no longer at ~ 1 ATM (call it 15 PSI, which the turbo was built for). I made 1 run that didn't make any sense - maybe Mutt was in 3rd. but I'm not sure. Anyhow, then I got a good solid run and here's the graph:

Call it 224HP! The boost peaked at 21ish. PSI which is a bit much on a stock bottom end. So some boost adjustment (the controller is almost all the way to "-") and we got 16 PSI - more better for this engine.

The next graph:

Note 196 HP (I was hoping for 200 - close enough) and it ran to about 135 MPH or so before the governor kicked in. Speed seems to be limited by RPM and gear ratio, not power!

On both runs note the torque. Love me some Diesels! Sadly, I couldn't give the dyno shop RPM values as I opted for the wrong capabilities on my Monarch photo tach and didn't get outputs. If I ever buy another readout I'll remedy that. If I'd had RPM out he could have graphed it along with the variables shown. The Dynojet software can estimate engine RPM from dyno RPM and a sort of calibration but it is just an approximation so we didn't graph it (not real data).

Anyhow, Mutt drove like a completely different truck. Pedal feel was different, sounds were different, everything was different. On the 16PSI run we entirely smoked out the shop! Never done that before - we're guessing that we had enough fuel to drive it a bit rich with less boost but that's a guess.

Anyhow, I think I can approach the national record (last I heard it was 128ish.).

Dan

What gear you running?

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

It's a 3:08 with a 28" tall rear tire. Fourth gear in the Getrag is, of course, 1:1. IIRC, the frontal area is about 25 sq. ft.

Mongo say We go fast!!

Dan

Dan,

Did you post dyno graphs? I am not able to view anything.

with 225 hp, what torque were you getting?

Unless the torque is a lot higher, perhaps the 135 is all you can expect with such a boxy truck...? If you have like 400# torque then maybe a taller gear will get you to 145 or so?

(What the hell do I know?)

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Tom - 346 ft. lbs. at 224 HP. At lower boost (16 psi) 196HP, 284 ft. lbs.

Frank - Yep, I posted the graphs which show on my screen. I'll post them as a pic here and see if they show up for you. Looks like they're at the bottom of this page.

Dan

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So this is on a rolling road dyno right? In the real world it is the air that provies the resistance. Looks like you are right around 138 mph when the fuel cuts off....so I guess you put it in the real world and see how much wind resistance there is. Simplist way to adjust gearing a bit is tire height. Maybe take along an extra set of taller rear tires which would put the top speed at 145 or 150?

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

BTW, you are nearly at double the power on the 617. This is using the stock turbo and a big injection pump right, basically?

I might have to do the same thing with the engine in my Studebaker

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

To answer a couple of your questions:

1) Yep, this was on a DynoJet chassis dyno. A dyno with a PAU (power absorbtion unit) is preferred but the inertial Dynojets can be useful. They can only take measurements at WOT/full rack (depending) but they can be helpful.

2) The turbo was built for me by Tim's Turbos in VA. It has a T04 compressor with clipped vanes and the hot side is stock.

3) My injection pump is a Dieselmeken SuperPump - Dieselmeken is Goran Lindgren. I can't say enough good things about Goran! His English is - um - interesting but so much better than my Swedish (I have none other than "smorgasbord") that I can't say a thing. I'm not sure you would want or need a Superpump with its 8mm elements for a street driver but he'll work out something for your application.

BTW - I got an Email from Goran this morning. We says I'll be safer at 20ish. PSI boost than at 16 given the smoke output at 16. Darn, more HP!

Dan

can the motor take that? are the bearings new?

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Those are nice numbers. Thanks for posting.

617a can take up to 300 hp. It has been reported above that, rods start to bend.


.

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1983 123.133 California
- GreaseCar Veg System

Goren reports that guys in Europe have claimed 600 HP, I assume at the flywheel, though I'm sure they've modified the base engine (pistons, rods, etc.) at those power levels. But 224 HP and over 300 ft. lbs. out of 2997 cc's (like 182 CID or so) (I just looked it up - just under 183 CID) is a TON of power from not a lot of displacement.

A somewhat milder pump and maybe a slightly less modified turbo should get this engine in the 175 to 200 HP range with great reliability and street manners. Mine really wouldn't be happy chugging around town.

Dan

To expand on this, a Dyno Jet is typically an inertia dyno where a large drum of a known inertia is accelerated by the test subject to X speed then HP / TQ calculated by how long it takes to accelerate. This is more for measuring capability's of a drag car / road race car between corners as acceleration over time is critical. This is also how some flywheel manufacturers can claim their light FW gives you more HP.

As speed levels off, the load on the engine drops and eventually will just be frictional losses in the vehicle / dyno.

A loading dyno ( PAU ) is more for towing a trailer up a hill / max speed ruins / down a long road race straight. This measures torque directly than calculated HP from there. Adding a light FW does nothing on this type of dyno.




Did he give reasons for that? While smoke does not = power, I'd be more inclined to reduce fuel levels to trim smoke.

I'd also be inclined to record rack position during an on the road run to determine if the rack is pulling back. Not sure if your pump has this but some industrial diesels use a torque limiter to pull the rack back in addition to the standard RPM limit.

First - good explanation on the dyno stuff. I did dyno setups and testing for a living and know WAY more about this stuff than I need to. I've learned to try to keep my explanations simple as folks eyes glaze over if I start telling the gory details. You might find my article on dynamometry (January 2000 issue of Hot Rod Magazine) interesting.

One of my options could be to roll back the pump output which on the SuperPump IS possible. But my goal is max HP/max MPH so I really don't have much incentive to do that. It runs SO happily at 20-21 PSI so why not give it what it likes?

This pump does not pull the rack back under power. You're thinking of a torque-limited Diesel like the older Cummins engines. Cats were always speed limited and had a huge advantage for over the road truckers as they would try to hold engine speed regardless of hills, etc. so they almost had cruise control back before that was common. Anyhow, this engine and the Bosch pumps on them were built for automotive use and that use really doesn't lend itself to either speed or torque limiting. This should not be confused with governor settings which are there to protect the engine. With the SuperPump that's set to about 5200 RPM, +/-.

Dan

Very nice! Congratulations!