This is exactly why we're seeing so many cars, apparently in good condition (not crashed), in the junkyards. Because so many people are unable to fix things for themselves and can't afford to have the car fixed (having been up-sold into a car they really can't afford), all of the little non-essential things that break are ignored. When something big breaks the car is now worth so little that it isn't worth fixing (and they probably can't afford it anyway) so the car goes to the junkyard.

Jeremy

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"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970

My understanding of the matter was that Mercedes really did have the entire system buttoned down in the early 1980s -- they used the best materials, over-engineered everything and had the newest technology, however their technology was mechanical.

Towards the end of the 1980s, cars started becoming more electronic. ECUs started taking on more tasks, power doors and windows were more common and manufacturers found that you could make a car with the features Mercedes offered as mechanical items substitued with electronic items for less money. The Japanese cars in the 1990s were very good in terms of features and were starting to catch up with Mercedes in terms of reliability at much lower cost.

The early 1990s were the years of the class action lawsuits and Mercedes made the choice to go ahead with making cars more luxury in terms of comfort -- before luxury also meant quality and build condition. Over time with inflation and rising labor costs large numbers of parts that were once rebuildable became single units, easier to troubleshoot and charge for at the parts counter. The build quality deteriorated and the expectation that you were buying a car that you could pass down to your children went away.

At this point, who would want to keep a newer Mercedes more than 10 years? The cost of ownership would be tremendous in terms of maintenance, after a certain point. Many of the repairs are so complicated you practically need to go to a dealer. And who wants to have a technological masterpiece that doesn't run the latest bluetooth, have the latest GPS maps, can't connect to your newest iGadget, etc. Besides, they are no longer classics. And they are also dealing with the latest EPA regulations, the global warming boogeyman, and a new regulatory environment.

Meanwhile, Infiniti and Lexus continue to offer Mercedes-like features that are computer related at a fraction of the price, although in many respects they seem like cheap knockoffs with the lowered Mercedes standards notwithstanding.

Dkr.

I mean, to be fair, my w123 has had probably 70% of it's retail value in new parts since I bought it. And I do all of the work myself (minus tires, alignment, and AC recovery). Though I am really picky about every single thing on the car working correctly and being cosmetically correct.

But I do agree with you, newer luxury cars depreciate at an absurd rate. I think part of that is parts and labor cost, and part of that is people's tendancy to want the latest greatest thing. If my GLA was not under warrantee I certainly wouldnt want to work on it, even though I am very comfortable working on mechanical and electronic systems.

The upside is its easy to buy a decade old luxury car, and if you are confident working on it and aware of common problems to watch for, you can get some amazing cars for very reasonable money.

Agree.
I was one of the German-English interpreters on the DB Chrysler Integration Team in 1998-2001, involved in a lot of follow-up.

I found out that when Schrempp became head of Mercedes vs. the whole company, he went on a cost-cutting tear that reduced durability in a lot of areas, betting that people would sell their cars and be enticed into newer cooler ones.

That didn't happen and he ended up getting an engineering genius named Huebbert to run a lot of things and fix what had gotten messed up.

A lot of stupidity in those days, because certain big shots thought they could ride the tide of big sales and the Internet boom to become zillionaires.

All I can say is: Bob Lutz told them they were wrong, as vice chairman. The gang got together and bought him out for 25.4 million. He left, became CEO of Exide battery and turned them around, then became vice-Chairman at GM.

One Chrysler senior exec saw his "share of the pie" go from 115 million to 4 million when the stock bubble tanked. he used to call up the Chrysler Board and ask them to send him extra money for security because he was getting so many threats!

In the meantime, Bob Lutz, the dude who told people to be honest, laughed. All the way to the bank.

That's why I date the death of Chrysler to 2001-2002.

Zetsche pulled things together, first at Chrysler then at Daimler, but no one person can rebuild everything by himself.

There was no more morale.

Think there is now, at FIAT Chrysler?

The a$$ kissers and staff of Human Resources are spending their extra time polishing apples and learning Italian.

Won't do them any good.

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Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

Oh boy oh boy, Strelnik, the things you could likely tell if you weren't under non-disclosure agreement and in pain of full legal prison rape by the Mercedes legal department. Wowsers.

Mercedes was hardly alone in the lemming run to quality compromises. To wit:

SAAB completed its descent into full quality control disintegration while under the "care" of GM. I feel sorry for SAAB, poor little brave carmaker, what did they deserve to get the hopelessly broken, dishonest management culture and chronic gross incompetence of the Old GM?

Volvo stuck a fork in its identity when it moved to FWD as a result of all the time and money invested in a new FWD chassis in the leadup to its aborted merger with Renault, thereby losing generations of loyal customers (there used to be a lot of ex-Volvo guys on this forum, once upon a time).

The ones Volvo didn't lose over the RWD loyalists' hissyfit gradually left when the gross quality problems with many years of the 850 chassis became evident. And they lost many of the "new convert" customers they onboarded with the newer, hipper 850 too, once the shine wore off. Same old Volvo dealer network, same old Kiss Our Rude Swedish Butts and Pay Up philosophy.) Like the Germans, they laughed too long and too hard at Lexus, and frankly even the higher spec "pedestrian" Japanese sedans. Now owned by the Chinese. Wow that was a master strategy if I ever saw one. Congrats Volvo executive and board.

I hear that Bimmer got pretty ragged for a while but I don't know a lot about that marque.

Honestly I think most or all of what gets produced today is 90 percent image and 10 percent content. The badge no longer means much in terms of integrity OR where the car was produced. I can probably buy a Honda (built in Alliston, ON, Canada) with more North American parts content than most "domestic" cars.

I am leaning heavily toward a low-spec new Honda Civic for my next car. Or maybe a used Lexus 1990s model from a dry state.

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Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Zacharias,
I agreed on the Saabs, sadly.
I would have to disagree with you on the Volvos.
I have bought two in the last year, a 1997-960 4dr and a 1996 850 Turbo MT with 200000k.

In both cases the owners cared for the cars.

On the 960, only repairs are the timing belt- known to be needed every 75000 miles, and very doable by an amateur with patience and no special tools. Also need a new PNP switch, because the old one is worn out, but can still work.

On the 850, struts after 200 000 miles and also the timing belt and brakes. The PO knew how to drive with an MT so I don't need a clutch.

Biggest problem on the 850 is a really stupid routing of the oil cooler hoses and those damned Torx drive wrenches!

Flip side-- the Volvo stealerships are the reason why the Volvo forums are as active as the Benz websites!

BTW are you Francophone or Anglophone?

__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

On the 850, quality is year dependent and dependent on the drivetrain. The 850 I think got better by year, then they fell off a cliff again with the early S70 and V70. I am recalling remarks by a Volvo service manager, who worked at one of their best dealers in Canada, Lawrence Park Motors. I spent quality time in his guest chair one day when my (very modified) 760 Turbo was towed in when it died in Toronto.

The 960 was a 900 series car, and that series was an extension of the 700 series which debuted in Europe in '83. (Actually a marked improvement in many areas over the 700, would not mind a 940 or 960 except I am 6 ft 4 ins and the headroom isn't there.) Those cars were developed well before the problem years. I had an '84 760 Turbo, highly modified, and it was a great car with lousy electronics (thank you Bosch).

I am Anglophone.

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Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

They can afford it actually, they other 3 cars are far more expensive and more reliable than that Mercedes R350 heap of junk. They just refuse to throw good money at bad money.
Rubbish, my 850 is going on 220k miles. Everything on it still works perfectly, doesn't leak a drop of oil and passes smog without fail every time. I wish I could say that about my W124 or W201s or W210 or my old Volvo 240, 740. The only one that comes close is my 960 and its also has a white block.

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CENSORED due to not family friendly words

Family members has driven new Mercedes back to at least 1 car before the 85SD that I have. The switch was made to Lexus ~8 yrs ago when water got into the door of their then current and new Mercedes causing thousands of dollars in unreimbursed dealership repairs without completely fixing the problem. I don't remember what model car they had but the rain damage was caused by a routine rain storm that wasn't abnormally strong. They are unlikely to revisit Mercedes unless Lexus makes similar mistakes (or decisions).

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

I once had a 1973 115 220D. It just ran. And ran. And ran. It was indestructible. If something needed to be repaired, which wasn't very often, it was simple and relatively inexpensive.

What happened? Few of you are old enough to remember, but in 1971 President Nixon stopped the convertibility of the US Dollar into gold, and a relentless decline in the value of the dollar against the German Mark and the Swiss Franc began. Suddenly Benzes were not affordable for smart people, only for rich ones. They had to put all of that luxury stuff on them (electric windows, climate control, etc.) in order to appeal to the rich people.

I now have a 1980 123 300D. All of those luxuries for rich people are a nightmare. Anyone want to buy an evil servo? Cost you a thousand dollars.

Richard

Very interesting. I had always thought my 1981 300SD was the best car I have ever owned and I still love it.

However after owning the Lexus for about eight years, I do believe it is a better automobile. It hurts me to say that.

I was not totally surprised but noticed a graph. Based on that recent graph it looks like Toyota is very much leading the pack in many ways. Toyotas Lexus is so far above average it looks isolated in comparison to all.

The graph was unusual in that it gives the expected range of problems with each brand plus the expected amount. The range of expected Toyota issues is very small.. At least in comparison to any other brand.

Although Toyota has said they may have to reduce quality to keep their cars within a sellable price range. I hope they do not implement that.

Honda has been having some problems for awhile now. It has fallen off to number six on the list because of this. Again that graph has nothing to do with sales or the percentage of market share.

I think the one surprise was Ford is not building a consistant quality at any level. Some of their products must be almost total garbage while some are decent.

Or you as an owner may find no consistency of problems in comparison. Even if a neighbor buys the same model vehicle one of the cars may be a servicing disaster and another pretty decent.

This to me is a somewhat new problem but makes buying ford products too risky as there is no way to know what they are delivering to you.

What that graph does indicate though is that Toyota has earnt the best selling car in the world status. Although the aspect of cheapen down the product may have already started. .

A bit of a secondhand story. My Dad, who lives in a larger U.S. metro area, has a neighbor who is head service mechanic at Benz dealer. The neighbor has two cars.... an 80's W126 and a new Toyota. He says he wouldn't ever buy one of the newer Benz cars: they are simply repair bills waiting to happen.

You're saying your Lexus is a better automobile than your 1981 Mercedes. But what year is your Lexus? Probably a 2008 model, roughly 30 years newer. I have a friend with a 1991 Lexus, same year as my Mercedes W124 and it is a piece of junk by comparison to my Mercedes. Of course, I keep my car up, he doesn't keep his up. His electronic panel, ie, speedometer, clock, oil guage, is completely out; totally black and broken. The car rides like a rock, very punishing ride. His car doesn't hold a candle to mine.

Jb - you make interesting points. My Lexus is over 20 years newer than the SD so I had not really considered that. Short of the fact that my freon has leaked out, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the SD now; whether I will be able to say that about the Lexus 25 years from now, I do not know.

The one thing I will say about the Lexus is that it is too complicated for me to work on; that is one reason I will probably never sell the SD.