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  #1  
Old 09-05-2016, 09:12 PM
babymog's Avatar
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Blowing coal, my diesel rant

I enjoy power, have modified my share of internal combustion engines, including diesels from Caterpillar to Isuzu.
My goals are always more power, and/or more efficiency, and usually both.
I have gotten tired of seeing pickup trucks "rolling coal" with screaming turbos through megaphone straight pipes, big-trucks using EPA loopholes to run pre-2003 engines in new trucks (and the associated black smoke), and yes, the occasional tdi or M-B diesel "tuned" to the point of black smoke.
Is more fuel more power? To a point, yes. Will it sometimes smoke if tuned to produce the maximum power/cc of displacement? Sometimes.
However, this extra fuel isn't burning completely and thus not producing much (if any) additional power and is usually unnecessary.
I'm not your classic tree-hugger, but don't believe that this is necessary.
But I have a bigger problem with this.
I love my diesels. They are powerful and efficient, and to many around the world they are environmentally concious and an important part of our future.
But those who blow black smoke just for fun and to annoy PRetentIoUS drivers, or thumb their noses to the EPA with dirty trucks just fuel the fire for those diesel (and general car) haters out there.
Instead of the public opinion embracing diesel cars and the massive strides made to mke them cleaner, we have lawsuits and can't buy a new Mercedes or VW diesel, and we owners are being pursued by angry mobs with pitchforks and torches.
Thanks.
Is there anything really wrong with buyung a bluetec or tdi and leaving it stock? My 5,000lb SUV will kick a 300D's ass 0-60 and get 33mpg all day, the tdi will put a hurt on a healthy 300D (even with ALDA and EGR disabled LOL) and turn in 45mpg without trying.
So I'll continue to give thumbs up to a nice classic benz, continue to work on my OM603s, but I also know who I'll blame next time the EPA tampers with diesel fuel, increases restrictions on diesel engines, or when I can't find a new diesel car.


Last edited by babymog; 09-06-2016 at 10:26 AM. Reason: spelling, rants on phone keyboards are risky!
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  #2  
Old 09-05-2016, 09:22 PM
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Did you mean to post this to the current ' blowing coal ' thread ?
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2016, 09:40 PM
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No, didn't see it, but feel free to move it.
Just frustrated needing another vehicle and not being able to find one because diesel vehicle sales are essentially on hold.
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  #4  
Old 09-05-2016, 11:29 PM
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I can not move it...
thought it was same vein given you used ' blowing coal' ..
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2016, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
big-trucks using EPA loopholes to run pre-2003 gngines in new trucks
I didn't know that was a thing. Pretty much every pre 07 heavy duty truck engine has been taken off the road in California and its has helped clean up the air dramatically.

Personally I'm happy to see new diesels disappear especially in passenger vehicles. There's absolutely no reason to build them anymore. GDI engines are getting very close to diesel efficiency and hybrids and EVs have far exceeded it at lower cost. Even Europe is finally waking up to the cost of their diesel obsessioin.

Good riddance
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2016, 01:38 AM
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Pick your poison. Diesel emissions are bad for people, but mainly just in congested and/or stagnant areas like the LA Basin or the central valley around Bakersfield. But, they aren't especially bad for "climate change", which is the currently recognized threat to the earth. That comes from any CO2 emissions, i.e. burning any fossil fuels. The very best way to reduce that is to burn renewable fuels, as I do by using the new Diesel HPR which comes from bio sources. It does emit CO2, but not "net CO2" since it didn't come out of the ground. That carbon originated from CO2 in the air and thus just cycled back.

People running electric cars think they are smug not emitting CO2, but it was emitted to produce their electricity, especially in CA since they shuttered the massive San Onofre nuclear plant and the last one (Diablo Canyon) is next up. Most electricity comes from burning fossil fuels, and while some claim "at least not coal", that doesn't count when CA buys electricity from out of state. You can even pay a little extra to imagine the electricity you draw from the lines came only from renewable power and thus ignore the mostly fossil electricity on the grid.

But, "global warming" gases are still being studied. R-134A is being outlawed since it is now bad as a greenhouse gas. Recall it replaced Freon to close the "ozone hole" (maybe, read up). One supposedly major source is cow farts, and no joke since methane is worse than CO2. In nature, there were never as many herbivores farting as we have now to satisfy our cravings. In old England, only a chosen few were able to eat meat, like the "beef-eaters" who protected the queen. We might save the earth by returning to a diet of gruel, with a treat of oatmeal at Christmas.
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Old 09-06-2016, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillGrissom View Post
Pick your poison. Diesel emissions are bad for people, but mainly just in congested and/or stagnant areas like the LA Basin or the central valley around Bakersfield. But, they aren't especially bad for "climate change", which is the currently recognized threat to the earth. That comes from any CO2 emissions, i.e. burning any fossil fuels. The very best way to reduce that is to burn renewable fuels, as I do by using the new Diesel HPR which comes from bio sources. It does emit CO2, but not "net CO2" since it didn't come out of the ground. That carbon originated from CO2 in the air and thus just cycled back.
I've been running both my diesels on this stuff for a year and half now and love it. I wish they would offer it at more stations. The closest one to me is over 50 miles away. When I pass by an HPR pump I fill up my 26 gallon fuel tank plus a couple of jerry cans.
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2016, 03:42 AM
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I thought it was called Rolling Coal...?

They piss me off too. I had a young buck in a truck set up to roll coal come up to me in my stock 03 Cummins dodge and try to get me to run him....? hah!
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #9  
Old 09-06-2016, 04:12 AM
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I recently went to a tractor pulling event and was surprised to see so much black smoke coming out of diesel engines. You were allowed in the pit areas so I asked the guys about producing so much black smoke and "doesn't that mean less efficiency / over fueling" and they said it was due to water injection. They spray it in the cylinders and the turbo.

Sure enough the black smoke coming out of the engines smelt more like a steam engine than diesel.

Still stupid if you ask me though - but I learnt something.
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  #10  
Old 09-06-2016, 07:46 AM
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Over fueling isn't just stupid, it's bad for the turbo. The soot comes from burning diesel... burning after it leaves the combustion chamber in the turbo. Rolling coal actually causes really high turbo and exhaust temps because all the diesel burning in them.
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  #11  
Old 09-06-2016, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
I didn't know that was a thing. Pretty much every pre 07 heavy duty truck engine has been taken off the road in California and its has helped clean up the air dramatically.
Look into "glider" trucks, you are allowed to buy a new truck without driveline, and put in a pre-'07 engine provided you have an old VIN to replace. You see them on the highway, new trucks with dirty exhaust. Still, its the pickups and cars that I feel really hurt us, the future car buyers, just like GM tanked the diesel car image in the late '70s.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Personally I'm happy to see new diesels disappear especially in passenger vehicles. There's absolutely no reason to build them anymore. GDI engines are getting very close to diesel efficiency and hybrids and EVs have far exceeded it at lower cost. Even Europe is finally waking up to the cost of their diesel obsessioin

Good riddance
Regarding the world waking up? I'm in the CNG business, followed the EPA's direction that CNG should replace diesel for trucking (like India has tried), ... in the EPA's new ruling signed Aug 16 they reversed direction and don't see natural gas as a viable transportation fuel for the next ten years. Further, the EPA in their last two rulings has calculated modern/current diesel engines to be CLEANER than gasoline, with natural gas cleaner still but not much, which those who read more than headlines understand is more complicated than merely tailpipe emissions (Bill G. touched on a small part of it above). Environmental issues are real, but our approach is mostly politics driven and just moving the problem around with a smoke and mirrors approach (anybody interested in looking into how much of a vehicle's "carbon footprint" exists before it ever leaves the showroom floor? How much environmental impact Lithium mining, Lithium-based batteries, and their lifecycle have?).

A big part of cleaning up the air in SoCal and other high-density areas is changing the buses, refuse trucks, and delivery vehicles that start/stop often and run primarily in these areas to CNG, Hybrid, EV, and even clean diesel, that is what you're (not) seeing and (not) breathing. The cdi/bluetec/tdi cars aren't even a player in this IMO, and most of us who buy new diesel cars (not pickups) do it because we spend a lot of time on the highway (why we need fuel efficiency). My neighbor's new Duramax is getting 18mpg, pickups are diesel more for hauling power than mileage.

As far as "getting very close to diesel efficiency and EVs ...", I looked at a lot of vehicles I thought would fit my needs before again buying diesel (from Chevy Volt to Escalade Hybrid). I eventually eliminated the many cheaper alternatives and a few more expensive, settled on the Mercedes GLC with gasoline direct-injected 2.0L. I couldn't find a new diesel anyway. As a final effort I drove a GLE/ML bluetec to be sure it wasn't what I wanted (new but last-year's model, couldn't order a new current year), and it IS again what I wanted. Why? Well, it gets better mileage, burns a fuel that has less carbon footprint to produce, and emits less greenhouse gasses when running. This is comparing the larger, heavier, less aerodynamic GLE to the smaller, lighter, more aerodynamic, fresh from Engineering GLC, ... so I don't agree with your comment. Remember that the GLC engine is new, the body and chassis is new, the GLC has a 9-speed to my 7-speed, ... I'm pretty happy getting an average combined mileage of 33.1 for my first 10,000miles in an AWD vehicle that can tow 7,000lbs.

Tractor pulling and smoke? Again complicated. In a direct-injected engine some of the smoke produces power, but in some cases in a DI engine extra fuel can cool the cylinder (also used in gasoline aircraft to cool the cylinders). Okay, off-road has its own lack of rules, and this is happening mostly in rural areas where the soot can fall to the ground fairly harmlessly (I said "fairly", not completely) in the farms, but the problem I see is the impression that it makes. Personally (without research) I feel that this is why you see so many hicks "blowing coal" from their street Cummins, Powerstrokes, and Duramaxes; they see it in truck-pulls so it is a cool thing to show others that you have modified your truck and are cool. I see it daily in my rural town, and almost every time I'm on the tollway etc. with a pickup cutting someone off who he had to wait for in the passing lane, and smoking the guy's car for causing him the inconvenience of waiting. I'd love to be able to push a button on my dashcam and see this guy next to the highway with a DOT cop a couple miles down the road, ... the vigilante in all of us?

I don't want to see racing regulated by the EPA as I don't think it's a significant impact to the environment directly, but the indirect impact in this case is the image of black smoke being a sign of power and being cool, some of these same pickups have confederate flags in the rear windows, ... when again was NorthEast Indiana part of the confederacy, ... I digress. I am getting to the point (old) where I'm starting to believe in some type of regulation on older vehicles (in many cases where emission testing is mandatory, older vehicles are either exempted, or if the cost of repairs is too high then they are exempted, which goes back to the 80/20 rule where 80% of the emissions come from the worst 20% of vehicles).

Get rid of the politics, get rid of the "hybrid" vehicles that get 25mpg highway but still park in the hybrid spots, get rid of the handouts that make very expensive to produce EV vehicles appear to be cost effective, and put that money into Engineering to find a real solution. If the solution really is EVs, lets clean up the electricity sources and find a better battery solution.
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Last edited by babymog; 09-06-2016 at 10:36 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2016, 11:07 AM
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My wife is in love with the GLC. Very disappointed to find out that the diesel is over a year away at best. Sigh.

Her 2008 ML320 CDI is doing well with 138k miles. I was very tempted to trade it in on a newer CPO 2014 or 2015 ML or GL Bluetec especially since they are running a 1% for 48 mo finance promotion. But that equates to a payment north of $550. With 2 kids in college that's a no go.

So I just ordered up a boat load of parts to fix the oil cooler and swirl flap debacle on the ML. Going for the 250 km award and beyond. Stay tuned for the updates on this. The thread from a few months back will be invaluable.
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2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son’s DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

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  #13  
Old 09-06-2016, 12:14 PM
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I was in for my 10kmile service last week, Fort Wayne Mercedes-Benz has two new 2015 E300 Bluetecs in stock, tempting to see how much discount is available, ... but my Wife went thumbs-down on the 2015 interior after we drove the 2017.

I'd have another OM651.960 in a heartbeat over the 654.
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2016, 12:24 PM
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Educate me on the new OMs.

The 651 is the 4 cylinder 2.5 L bi-turbo? What's a 654?

She hates the old outdated navi and first generation Bluetooth system but otherwise likes the vehicle.

She also prefers SUVs for the height advantage.

Sorry but the 2017 E has too much Big Brother for my taste. I'm afraid that crap is coming to the GL class as well. That is a definite turn off for me. I don't want my car communicating with other cars or making driving decisions for me. Very slippery slope here to control of my car by others.
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The OM 642/722.9 powered family
Still going strong
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son’s DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech
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  #15  
Old 09-06-2016, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_bob View Post
Sorry but the 2017 E has too much Big Brother for my taste. I'm afraid that crap is coming to the GL class as well. That is a definite turn off for me. I don't want my car communicating with other cars or making driving decisions for me. Very slippery slope here to control of my car by others.
You could step up to a 1978 Datsun Z if you want to get away from the tech. I have on and love it. It runs well but is in my shop waiting for me to get on Megasquirting it. I guess that means that it technically isn't running but I can dream.

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