Hi.

I moved further away from work, so now I'm in need of a work car:
-inexpensive to purchase
-really good fuel economy
-reliable once made "right"
-something I can maintain

A 190D, preferably with a manual transmission, sounded to me like a perfect fit. I've worked on my SL's in the past (W113 and W107), and while I haven't done any engine rebuilds, I am comfortable turning a wrench.

When looking for a 190D, should I be scared of 200,000+ on the odometer? If the car has little to no rust (original or repaired/repainted) and the drive train is good, does that trump the mileage and all the other typical things wrong with these cars?

Example: I'm looking at a 235,000 mile 1984 190D 2.2 with manual 5-speed. It's been painted (and a Cosworth looking body kit installed) and seller claims no rust. Kit covers jack holes. I did not get the chance to put it on ramps or a lift to look at rust, but I did get to drive it. It idled smooth and ran smooth, shifted fine, and the exhaust seemed good. If the body is actually good, does that over ride the normal problems? Things like a wonky A/C unit, door checks, window regulators, radio problems, bad interior door cards, bad hood strut, small vibration at highway speeds, etc.?

I just want to put my priorities in the right place when evaluating a car.

Thanks

__________________
NOW: 2017 C43 AMG, 2006 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 1966 230SL, 1980 450SL (for sale!)
PAST: 2006 C230, 1997 E300D, 1994 E420, 1994 Neon Spt Cpe, 1984 300ZX, 1983 Celica GT, 1976 Electra Limited, 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650, 1979 Suzuki PE175, 1978 Suzuki DS100
www.mbca.org - www.sl113.org - www.ohio4x4.com

You don't say how much it is. I would take a hard look. It sounds like it could be a rusty car under the body kit.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I would not be scared of the mileage, especially if there are maintenance records, up to 500k miles.

A 190D 2.2 with five speed can easily return 40 mpg on the highway, if you're not a speed demon, and 45 mpg is possible.

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

Wonky A/C could spell big money, unless you want to DIY. The rest are probably minor things but the cost will eat you up unless you DIY.

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

Sorry - Seller was asking $4850 back in Jan/Feb. A while after I drove it, it was taken off CL and then came back on after a couple weeks at $4500. I'm thinking it's worth $3500 if the body's actually in good shape. It has the issues listed in original post. Seller claims it is a two owner car. He's got a small stack of docs that I didn't take the time to look at the day I drove it.

__________________
NOW: 2017 C43 AMG, 2006 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 1966 230SL, 1980 450SL (for sale!)
PAST: 2006 C230, 1997 E300D, 1994 E420, 1994 Neon Spt Cpe, 1984 300ZX, 1983 Celica GT, 1976 Electra Limited, 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650, 1979 Suzuki PE175, 1978 Suzuki DS100
www.mbca.org - www.sl113.org - www.ohio4x4.com

Yes, I've read that. If everything is in tune and not worn out or leaking or anything then they can hit 40 or more mpg on highway. I think hands down it will be better mpg than anything else M-B:
- W123 4-cylinder 2.4 manual transmission
- W124 5-cylinder 2.5 turbo
- W124 6-cylinder NA

I need to review the records the seller has.

Assuming I can't pry off any body kit pieces, where are the places I need to inspect closely for rust?

In general, I do plan to DIY as much as possible. I've never worked on A/C, though. I assume I'd have no problems replacing parts (push button control unit, vent flap modulators & vac lines, compressors, dryers, r134 conversion parts, etc.) I'd have to take it somewhere to deal with refrigerant.

Having another vehicle to drive while I work on this one is the only reason I can consider this.

__________________
NOW: 2017 C43 AMG, 2006 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 1966 230SL, 1980 450SL (for sale!)
PAST: 2006 C230, 1997 E300D, 1994 E420, 1994 Neon Spt Cpe, 1984 300ZX, 1983 Celica GT, 1976 Electra Limited, 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650, 1979 Suzuki PE175, 1978 Suzuki DS100
www.mbca.org - www.sl113.org - www.ohio4x4.com

in the rust belt, body rust trumps everything else. putting a 30 yo car into dependable running order is a process, and to have the body fall out from under your repairs is typical, and disappointing so i have a rule, learned the hard way: dont put any money into anything that shows rust.

my three 190d have all been great cars, fun to drive and worth the effort it takes to keep them on the road. two of the three died of rust: it starts in the wheel arches and spreads from there. two of the three have needed head gaskets. two of the three have needed transmission servcing. all of them have had climate control issues.

This car might be better for you.
Bigger, faster, more comfy, and it looks like everything works.
No rust either.
Should get close to 30mpg on hwy.

https://athensohio.craigslist.org/cto/6070882201.html

I used a body kit to pretty up my much welded and patched sills. You can't tell a thing if you can't pull the plastic off.

The A/C system can be a real experience. When you see the phrase "just needs a charge", the proper answer is "so charge it". Otherwise, kiss your time and money goodbye.

I have 406K miles on my 190D turbo. I wouldn't say it's been a problem free dream ride. The main virtue is that it's easy to work on and parts are available.

Bottom line, after 30 years and more than 200K miles and it's anyone's guess as to what you'll be getting.

The major difference between the 124 and the 201 are the much cheaper interior in the 201 and the better mileage in the 201. The 201 door cards are just weak. That particular engine is also less common, so finding used parts can be tough.

Personally I like the looks of the 201 better than the 124, until the upgrades of the last couple years of the 124.

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

$4500 seems like a lot compared to this - https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/6042142230.html - which is unlikely to have rust of any sort. MT can't be worth a $2700 premium.

Sixto
83 300SD
98 E320 wagon

That's a pretty good deal. Mine is a one owner car, mine, bought new. I've been thinking about selling but wouldn't consider anything less than $4K. 157K original miles on clock. AT, about 32mpg mostly around town, lots of upgrades, burns no oil and professionally maintained while wife drove before she died a few years back. Clean in all respects and AC works. Parts are still available and our Pick n Pulls out here have them all the time for the little things. I agree the MT wouldn't be worth the premium, and not at all for me.

OK, thanks. That makes all the sense in the world.

None of those surprise me, considering how many miles people are putting on these cars as they age. I'm hopeing a head gasket problem can be found during pre-purchase inspection. Not expecting a transmission issue with a manual shift. I expect them all the have climate control issue of some kind.

That's a good find - I initially thought of a W124 diesel. This one being an 87, shouldn't it have the 2.5 turbo like the 190D had available that year? Or, is this the same engine as the SD? You can see in my sig that I had an E420 and it was a great car. I thought the W124 diesel didn't really fit my needs because it gets about 10 mpg less and they all have automatics which usually means more maintenance, more repairs, and less mpg (torque converter). Bigger/roomier chassis is nice, more comfy ride is nice. Faster I don't care about. Less rust and more things working (on this example or on most W124's available) is a reason to look at them. I drive about 80 miles/day, so at 400+ miles per week I thought 10 mpg might trump the benefits of W124 diesel.

I found a shop that will let me poke around with the car on their lift, so I'll see what I can see. I'll also look for the paint job info in the receipts.

This one seems to be a push button control issue or a vac issue as the A/C only blows cold when set to max.

Having the best MPG (small car, small engine, manual transmission) is the main reason I'm looking at the W201 2.2 or 2.5 over the 87 and 90-95 W124s.

But that is 3000 miles away and I wasn't expecting to buy out-of-state. I've never bought a car from out of state - I've always inspected in person. I have been looking around the country on CL (what a pain in the rear!) to get price comparisons and I've seen this one. For this one I'm looking at locally, I don't think it's worth more than $3500, and that's only if there are no rust issues.

__________________
NOW: 2017 C43 AMG, 2006 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 1966 230SL, 1980 450SL (for sale!)
PAST: 2006 C230, 1997 E300D, 1994 E420, 1994 Neon Spt Cpe, 1984 300ZX, 1983 Celica GT, 1976 Electra Limited, 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650, 1979 Suzuki PE175, 1978 Suzuki DS100
www.mbca.org - www.sl113.org - www.ohio4x4.com

Thanks for everyone's input! What I've gotten out of this so far is:
- Rust is the A1 highest priority critical thing to understand about the car. Run from it!
- Inspect thoroughly, but any 30+ year old car can have, or be hiding, any number of issues. Expect to fix many things.
- Most drive trains are very reliable, so don't worry about 250,000 miles on the odometer.

I drive about 15,000 miles/year. I was thinking the MPG of a manual shift 2.2 or 2.5 was critical. Those of you who drive their diesel at least 12,000 miles annually, is your priority MPG? Or, did you want a larger, more comfortable riding, roomier, and safer(?) car and sacrifice the fuel economy?

Thanks!

__________________
NOW: 2017 C43 AMG, 2006 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 1966 230SL, 1980 450SL (for sale!)
PAST: 2006 C230, 1997 E300D, 1994 E420, 1994 Neon Spt Cpe, 1984 300ZX, 1983 Celica GT, 1976 Electra Limited, 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650, 1979 Suzuki PE175, 1978 Suzuki DS100
www.mbca.org - www.sl113.org - www.ohio4x4.com

On a diesel an uneven idle is a bad sign. It indicates a weak cylinder. Worst case is a ring or valve problem, best case is a bad injector.

Look for a nice smooth idle. When you accelerate it should be nice and smooth from low to high rpm. If the engine were turbocharged it would speed up when the boost comes in and really take off. This car you are looking at is not turbo I believe.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.