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#16
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I do suspect either the engine was one which never came with a VP originally or the timing device. You have a good point. After an extensive google search I can't find any references for a 1966 W110 200D having a brake booster. There is the possibility one was swapped in?
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1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making.... 1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...) 1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone* 1977 250 parts car 1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone* 1975 FJ45>HJ45 1981 200>240D (to be sold...) 1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone* 1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist) 2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD |
#17
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From the EPC diagram below, it looks like the vaccum pump is driven by a bushing that acts in concert with two springs.
Sorry I don't have any more info for you.
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78 W116 300SD 'Desert Rose' new as of 01/26/2014 79 W116 300SD 'Stormcloud' RIP 04/11/2022 |
#18
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See if this helps. Looked up the same thing that Alec did, sometimes you have to look under weird things in the EPC to find what you want. Part numbers are shown on the left side. It looks like there are 2 different timing devices available.
Last edited by Diseasel300; 06-19-2021 at 10:06 PM. |
#19
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Is there a way to use the vehicles VIN Number to find what Engine Number range is supposed to be in his vehicle?
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#20
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ipernity: Throttle and venturi of a Mercedes-Benz diesel engine - by Michiel 2005
"From 1936 to 1979 Mercedes-Benz used a pneumatic governor on its diesel engines for passenger cars. The pneumatic governor used a throttle and a venturi in the air intake to govern the speed of the diesel engine." If you look at the pic if the site you will see the Venturi in the Intake Manifold. However, if you look at the pic in the site you see the Venturi and the Butterfly Valve. The Governor actually runs off of the Venturi Vacuum. However, it is hard to believe that with the Butterfly Vlave partly blocking the air way there is no vacuum in the Intake Maiflod beyond the Venturi Vacuum. Also you can have a partial vacuum and still have Air Flow. But, I have not ever read anything one way or another on how the vacuum effects compression in Diesel Engines.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#21
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That's something I could see myself acomplishing. It could account for your symptoms of no vacuum after a rebuild of a previously working vacuum pump. Do you know if the pump ever produced vacuum before you rebuilt it?
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78 W116 300SD 'Desert Rose' new as of 01/26/2014 79 W116 300SD 'Stormcloud' RIP 04/11/2022 |
#22
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Quote:
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1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making.... 1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...) 1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone* 1977 250 parts car 1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone* 1975 FJ45>HJ45 1981 200>240D (to be sold...) 1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone* 1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist) 2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD |
#23
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It also takes X amount of heat to ingited the injected Fuel. However, that heat does not have to come entirly from the heat of compression the compressed Air. I don't have the specific starting instructions for a 200D. But, I somewhat remember what people said and last night I read the instructions from another Diesel Car that has a Pneumatic Governor and the instructions were the same as people on the Forum have said. You pre-glow then you step on the Accelerator Pedal (that would open the Butterfly Valve/Throttle allowing plenty of air to pass buy) and crank the Engine. So we have the Glow Plugs and plenty of Air for Compression. At the same time the Pneumatic Governor in the face of no venturi vacuum (because of the wide open throttle) is going to go to full fuel so that you have plenty of Fuel. When the Engine is going good you can take your foot off of the Accelerator Pedal and the Throttle Plate obviously partly closes to some idle position. Even though the Throttle Plate is mostly closed there is apparently enough Air and therefore enough compression to keep the Engine going at idle. When you accelerate you open the Throttle Valve and remove the restriction to the Flow so you have plenty of Air for compression. Once combustion starts in the Precombustion Chamber I bet that Ball Pin that the Injector Sprays down on gets hot really fast (and stays hot as there is limited area for heat to conduct away from it). That means once that Ball Pin is hot if any raw Fuel sprays on it the Ball Pin itself is sufficient to ignite the Fuel. If the compression was for some reason low once the Ball Pin is hot enough the Fuel is still going to ignite. So that is my understanding on the above stuff. In the past someone also mentioned that direct injection Engines have about a 17 to one compression ration and that the mercedes had a 20+ to one compression ratio. That would seem to indicate that 17 to one compration is sufficient to ignite the Diesel Fuel and if the Mercedes suffered some compression loss it could drop some and still work. Maybe someone with a 200D or 240D that has a Penumatic Governor on it can disconnect the Vacuum Pump Connection at the Intake Maifold and connect a Vacuum Gauge to that port and we can find out for sure if there is any Vacuum in the Manifold of those particular Engines that have a Throttle Plate in the Intake.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#24
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I a curious to know that since this particular Engine does not seem to be setup for a Vacuum Pump if the Intake Manual has the port open where intake hose on the Vacuum Pump attaches.
If there is no open port on the Intake Manifold I would belive that that patricular Engine was not made to have a Vacuum Pump.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#25
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When looking up the 621 and 636's, it seems that they were very common in watercraft, probably more common there than in automotive applications and obviously have no vacuum pump. The timing device is different for the various uses, it would be interesting to know if this car has a watercraft engine or timing device fitted. Would certainly explain a lot...
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#26
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Wow this thread really blew up! Awesome information for me, the more technical the better. I specialize in repairing modern European cars and diesel trucks so I'm basically figuring out the mechanical operations that modern cars accomplish by computer systems. Let's give an update, I ordered a injector pump gear with vacuum pump cam actuator online. Once it gets here I will scrutinize the 2 parts to confirm they are similar in design.
As a side note, I shipped my brake Booster out to pwrbrakes.com and they are just about done rebuilding that.
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1966 Mercedes 200D 4 speed project! |
#27
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1966 Mercedes 200D 4 speed project! |
#28
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Only trouble with disconnecting the injection pump pipe from the manifold is that it will run away once started, so would have to be a Tee. I might try it one day on my Granddads '75 HJ45... Block casting number is likely to be behind the IP. Should be 621 918 apparently
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1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making.... 1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...) 1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone* 1977 250 parts car 1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone* 1975 FJ45>HJ45 1981 200>240D (to be sold...) 1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone* 1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist) 2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD |
#29
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I think you guys are mixing up compression ratios and air fuel mixtures. The compression ratio isn't a dynamic number (except the new Nissan variable compression engine). When you momentarily block off an intake, the engine will only run richer due to the remaining air being used up faster then it is replaced. The engine will then stall once the rotating inertia isn't enough to overcome the vacuum in the manifold, or when the mixture is too rich and is unable to burn. Modern diesels have throttle bodies on them for emissions reasons, in certain drive cycles the TB will partially close to better have egr gasses pushed into the intake
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1966 Mercedes 200D 4 speed project! |
#30
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I am wishing someone would actually hook a up vacuum gauge; just curiosity.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
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