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  #1  
Old 09-29-2019, 09:46 AM
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Stuck ignition tumbler

Shortly after bringing home (a few months ago) my '83 240D, with 200K+ miles, I had the fateful and famous "key stuck/won't turn" ignition tumbler problem. Thanks to this forum I was able to "free up" the key (using vibration only, NOT a bunch of messy lubes, oils and graphite) and follow the procedure to remove the old tumbler and install a new one. So far so good....trim ring and security ring off, worn out tumbler removed, new tumbler ("Febi" from Pelican) ready to install.
So, here's my problem. I've read, on these forums, the ignition switch can also contribute to problems with smooth key function/steering lock malfunction and NOT just the tumbler. My thought was to place the tumbler, only, into the ignition switch and see how everything functioned (not put the security ring and trim rings back in place) and if all was good, assemble it all back together. Did that, and seemed to work "ok"....not perfect. Some minor key "jiggling" still required, but no problems with stuck key, etc. I'm assuming the ignition switch isn't far behind the tumbler, as far as failing is concerned, so gonna change that, too. Well, now the tumbler won't come out of the ignition switch. The security ring is NOT installed. What could be holding the tumbler in? When I initially disassembled it, after removing the security ring, the tumbler just "fell out", pretty much. Assumed that would be the case while trying the new tumbler without the security ring....obviously mistaken.
This really isn't a "super huge deal", the car starts and shuts off fine. The steering lock engages and disengages and everything works fairly well. I'm not gonna install the security ring or trim rings so I can pull the ignition switch assembly if need be. (have a new one waiting in the wings). New key goes in and out of the tumbler no problem. Have original key to lock doors, no problem.
Just wondered why the tumbler won't pop out of the ignition switch (like it did initially)? What grabbed onto it when I put the new tumbler in and why wasn't that same force holding the "old" tumbler in?

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Old 09-29-2019, 01:50 PM
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If you can get the key to turn back into the position that you removed the tumbler in you should be able to remove the whole steering Colum Lock and the Ignition Switch and dissemble all of it and inspect it inside of it. (I recommend this to anyone replacing the Lock Tumbler. I also found that the Ignition Switch although still working had a contact point burned off of one side of it.)

There has been at least 3 members including myself that had the innards of the Steering Colum Lock break internally and it in my case mimicked the lock tumbler issue.

Attached is a picture of part of mine. #1 is a thin actually tubular shaft that goes down to the actual Ignition Switch.
Attached Thumbnails
Stuck ignition tumbler-inside-sterring-colum-lock-broken-2019.jpg  
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  #3  
Old 09-29-2019, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123boy View Post
Shortly after bringing home (a few months ago) my '83 240D, with 200K+ miles, I had the fateful and famous "key stuck/won't turn" ignition tumbler problem. Thanks to this forum I was able to "free up" the key (using vibration only, NOT a bunch of messy lubes, oils and graphite) and follow the procedure to remove the old tumbler and install a new one. So far so good....trim ring and security ring off, worn out tumbler removed, new tumbler ("Febi" from Pelican) ready to install.
So, here's my problem. I've read, on these forums, the ignition switch can also contribute to problems with smooth key function/steering lock malfunction and NOT just the tumbler. My thought was to place the tumbler, only, into the ignition switch and see how everything functioned (not put the security ring and trim rings back in place) and if all was good, assemble it all back together. Did that, and seemed to work "ok"....not perfect. Some minor key "jiggling" still required, but no problems with stuck key, etc. I'm assuming the ignition switch isn't far behind the tumbler, as far as failing is concerned, so gonna change that, too. Well, now the tumbler won't come out of the ignition switch. The security ring is NOT installed. What could be holding the tumbler in? When I initially disassembled it, after removing the security ring, the tumbler just "fell out", pretty much. Assumed that would be the case while trying the new tumbler without the security ring....obviously mistaken.
This really isn't a "super huge deal", the car starts and shuts off fine. The steering lock engages and disengages and everything works fairly well. I'm not gonna install the security ring or trim rings so I can pull the ignition switch assembly if need be. (have a new one waiting in the wings). New key goes in and out of the tumbler no problem. Have original key to lock doors, no problem.
Just wondered why the tumbler won't pop out of the ignition switch (like it did initially)? What grabbed onto it when I put the new tumbler in and why wasn't that same force holding the "old" tumbler in?
In order to get out the original ignition switch did you have to turn it into a specific position and stick a wire into a hole in order to get it out or did it just fall to pieces and you did not have to do that?
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Old 09-29-2019, 02:40 PM
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If you mean the original "tumbler", yes, I turned to the #2 or accessory position, I think they call it, and inserted the wire to release the security collar. The tumbler came out, just as it should, using that sequence (norman tumbler removal). I never removed the ignition switch/steering lock ass'y, although I have a new one ready to go when "it's time".
That's why I don't understand why the new tumbler seems "stuck in place". Did not install the locking collar, so wouldn't the tumbler simply go in and out?
Also, without the locking security collar, the entire switch/tumbler ass'y can be removed as a unit, correct?
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Old 09-29-2019, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123boy View Post
If you mean the original "tumbler", yes, I turned to the #2 or accessory position, I think they call it, and inserted the wire to release the security collar. The tumbler came out, just as it should, using that sequence (norman tumbler removal). I never removed the ignition switch/steering lock ass'y, although I have a new one ready to go when "it's time".
That's why I don't understand why the new tumbler seems "stuck in place". Did not install the locking collar, so wouldn't the tumbler simply go in and out?
Also, without the locking security collar, the entire switch/tumbler ass'y can be removed as a unit, correct?
In the #2 position that wire is supposed to lower a block that holds the Lock Tumbler in place even if the Security Collar is not there.

In the attachéd picture some people have had that finger or the mechanism behind it break. I don't know if that would keep you from removing the Tumbler or not. If the Security Collar is off it should it will not be as hard to remove the Steering Colum Lock Assembly.

In the next pic circled is the notch that the Lock Tumbler locks into even without the Security Collar.
Attached Thumbnails
Stuck ignition tumbler-steering-colum-lock-front-view-without-tumbler.jpg   Stuck ignition tumbler-steering-colum-lock-tumbler-block-notch-2019.jpg  
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2019, 11:48 PM
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Exclamation Steering Lock Woes

Whew ~ BT , DT recently on my '84 300CD .

I replaced the tumbler and it was occasionally sticky, after a year or so it lockd firmly and I thought I was stranded .

After a long time of gently working the key I got it unlocked, drove home and replaced the locking mechanism .

I wait to see how yours goes .
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:20 AM
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Thanks Diesel. I'll look at it a little more closely tomorrow. I was under the impression that it was the collar that held the tumbler in place. Wasn't aware that the tumbler locks into a "notch" even without the security collar installed. More than likely that's my problem. Knew it had to be something relatively simple. The tumbler r/r was one of the first repairs I made to the car after I got it a few months ago. Since it's been working fine, figured I'd go after a few more gremlins and worry about the locking collar/trim ring, etc. later. Appreciate the info!!
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2019, 12:39 AM
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A new steering Colum Lock is actually a good deal. You get a new Ignition switch and a new Vacuum Switch with it.

However you need to be carful removing the safety buzzer switch.

Remember mine is an 84 a year younger then yours.

My steering Colum Lock thread
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/333785-steering-colum-lock-ignition-lock-housing-causes-ignition-switch-failure.html
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:27 AM
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Please install a new new steering column lock too. It isn't a terrible job, I did mine in my driveway on my 240 in an hour or two. Remove the instrument cluster and lower dash panel to make your life easy.
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2019, 08:52 AM
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Thanks Diesel and Harv. I have the new ignition lock "on standby", ready to go. I thought it was a pretty good deal, too. Bought it here, on the "Pelican". The price was a fraction of what you'd spend if stranded (or can't remove the tumbler without a locksmith) and unable to drive the car!! Haven't put it in as I'm having zero troubles now that I've installed a new tumbler (save for what I mentioned here in the previous posts). Already have the lower dash removed and the cluster has been out a couple times and not fully seated (easily popped). Although the car is "roadworthy", I don't venture too far from home as I'm slowly going through "everything", not in a hurry, no pressure....more of a hobby. 2016 RAM for my daily (1500, single cab, basic truck, nothin "fancy", really tiny V6....lol)

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