Firad injector nozzle test Mercedes 300D - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tmessenger · #1 10-14-2019, 01:25 PM

There's little information on these Italian made Firad injector nozzles use in the older Mercedes 617 application so I put up a short video of a just rebuilt injector. I bought 6 of these nozzles so I'd have an spare in case I got a bad spray pattern. No problems at all, the patterns looked good to me and they were easy to setup. My 300D is a non turbo so release pressures were set at (3) at 1725 psi, (1) at 1700 psi, and (1) at 1750 psi.

I don't have enough post to include a youtube link so just search under: Firad injector nozzle test Mercedes 300D on youtube and it will come up.

Regards,
Tim

Diseasel300 · #2 10-14-2019, 03:50 PM

I'm running Firad 314's in my 350SD and I've been pleased with them. They're consistent, mine all popped 1950+/-25PSI with good patterns. Car runs smooth and makes good power with no noise and less smoke than it made with the Monark 265's. Considering the price compared to the Monarks and the lousy reputation of the Indian Bosch, it's a no-brainer in my book.

Screwdriva · #3 10-14-2019, 04:40 PM

I've literally just purchased the Monark #261's for my OM616 W115 motor. Have I made an error in judgement? Not looking to replace these for another decade or so and thought that the Made in Germany Monark's were better than the Bosio nozzles.

tmessenger · #4 10-14-2019, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screwdriva

I've literally just purchased the Monark #261's for my OM616 W115 motor. Have I made an error in judgement? Not looking to replace these for another decade or so and thought that the Made in Germany Monark's were better than the Bosio nozzles.

I don't think you made a bad judgement, both Monark and Bosio are no longer making nozzles for our cars. The only available are the new old stock nozzles sold by a German seller on ebay that I could find so I decided to give the Firad SD265's a try. The Firad nozzles are liked by VW diesel builders so I think they are OK but the Monark's had a good reputation also.

Tim

Screwdriva · #5 10-14-2019, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmessenger

both Monark and Bosio are no longer making nozzles for our cars.

What! Has this been confirmed anywhere? That is a genuine shame if true!

Screwdriva · #6 10-14-2019, 10:22 PM

Just found this post from the Injector Guru himself:

"Here is my .02. It is not scientific nor based on any technical studies and I had my fill of a former member who premised a virtual livlihood out of making a distinction without a difference to prompt a debate in which he was already "correct". So, here it is:

The Bosio's have a super nice spray pattern with a much heavier flow of fuel. Since I am looking at spray patterns with just my eyes -- no special equipment or scanner or whatever -- I can see how they pop. The Bosch's pop with a nice spray pattern but it is like a vapor. The Monarks have a nice spray pattern but it's like a mist. So, comparing all 3 above, and looking at them, they all spray nice (assuming good nozzles and pintles) but the Bosios have way more fuel without any sort of peeing or streaming. Having rebuilt well over 50 sets of injectors for customers on the forums in the past year, and trying all 3 plus Elsbetts, the Bosios are the best IMO. Maybe it is their ability to deliver more fuel but deliver it in a manner which permits a nice spray pattern instead of peeing or streaming. The Bosch's pop like a vapor also but much heavier on the fuel. Sort of like if you took nose drops and squeezed the container into the air. You can see the mist but it quickly goes away whereas if you had more fuel but the same exact delivery, the heavier "mist" or "spray" just cannot disappear, but no peeing or streaming. "

dieselbenz1 · #7 10-14-2019, 11:20 PM

I just installed Fraid 265 in my 602 and so far pleased. The monarhs 314 I removed with 30 km tested poorly with the spray pattern. Between the original Bosch 314 and monarks My preference was Bosch we will see with the Fraids.

Diseasel300 · #8 10-14-2019, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselbenz1

I just installed Firad 265 in my 602 and so far pleased. The monark 314 I removed with 30 km tested poorly with the spray pattern. Between the original Bosch 314 and monarks My preference was Bosch we will see with the Firads.

My impression of Monark was not good. I had a set of 265's I ran in my SDL and I could get them to pass the pop test and make a reasonable pattern, but after 4-5K miles, they'd be nailing at idle. Pull the injector and find a poor spray pattern, pop pressures fine. Wash, rinse, repeat. The Firads had a better spray pattern out of the box and so far have not developed any of the irritating issues the Monarks did. My personal opinion is that Monarks are overrated. I realize that's a single datapoint and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but for the money I feel like the quality was a bit lacking.

dieselbenz1 · #9 10-14-2019, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diseasel300

My impression of Monark was not good. I had a set of 265's I ran in my SDL and I could get them to pass the pop test and make a reasonable pattern, but after 4-5K miles, they'd be nailing at idle. Pull the injector and find a poor spray pattern, pop pressures fine. Wash, rinse, repeat. The Firads had a better spray pattern out of the box and so far have not developed any of the irritating issues the Monarks did. My personal opinion is that Monarks are overrated. I realize that's a single datapoint and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but for the money I feel like the quality was a bit lacking.

I was disapointed the monarks short life.

ykobayashi · #10 12-01-2019, 10:51 PM

Thanks tmessenger. I bought your M...source injector tester and it worked out great. I got two sets of nozzles, Monarks and Firads. I put the Monarks in my 300SD. Runs much better now. Two were leaking (pissing at low pressure before popping at nominal pressure) a little stream of fuel.

I probably should have tried cleaning them but since I'd already bought the Monarks I just went ahead and swapped the new ones in. Car makes more power, less smoke and the idle went up 100 rpm. Had to readjust the throttle.

I'll put the Firads in my 300D. Maybe next week. Hopefully the Monarks won't fail early in life like the other experiences here. I ran a set of Monarks on my 240d many years with good results. I reallly abused those injectors with WVO, kerosene, hydraulic oil and waste motor oil for years. The car didn't miss a beat.

All these YT vids about trashing prechambers using squirting injectors freaked me out so I decided to change mine out. Two were bad. They still popped but they'd squirt a stream before hitting the pop pressure.

Worked out well. Eventually I'll probably put the test rig up forsale here because I don't think I'll be testing anymore. Unless the Monarks go bad...,

Diesel911 · #11 12-01-2019, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screwdriva

I've literally just purchased the Monark #261's for my OM616 W115 motor. Have I made an error in judgement? Not looking to replace these for another decade or so and thought that the Made in Germany Monark's were better than the Bosio nozzles.

I have had the Monarks in mine since at least 2009 with no issues. The Bosio Nozzles cost more then the Monarks and that company is well known and they also make direct injection nozzles and have various higher performance nozzles.

This newer Firad company is not well known on this forum.

The Monark Nozzles for my 84 300D are not high performance nozzles and have what is called a facet (flat spot) on the Needle/Pintel that is in lue of the drilled passage in the bosch nozzles that is used for the idle fuel. The main advantage is the facet won't plug up.

Bosch made Nozzles with a facet for us on their later model diesels till they went direct injection.
The attached picture and diagram are of the bosch version with the facet feature.

Bosio nozzles have neither the facet nor the drilled passages.

Diesel911 · #12 12-01-2019, 11:29 PM

There was 1 year when Monark Nozzles had issues and they were withdrawn from the market by Monark but they came back. I don't remember what year.

tmessenger · #13 12-02-2019, 01:28 PM

Good luck with your rebuilds my 300D is running great after the new nozzles.

I like the idea of passing forward the injector tester, I ate most of the deprecation on it so sell for what you paid if you can so others can have some fun.

Tim

Quote:

Originally Posted by ykobayashi

Thanks tmessenger. I bought your M...source injector tester and it worked out great. I got two sets of nozzles, Monarks and Firads. I put the Monarks in my 300SD. Runs much better now. Two were leaking (pissing at low pressure before popping at nominal pressure) a little stream of fuel.

I probably should have tried cleaning them but since I'd already bought the Monarks I just went ahead and swapped the new ones in. Car makes more power, less smoke and the idle went up 100 rpm. Had to readjust the throttle.

I'll put the Firads in my 300D. Maybe next week. Hopefully the Monarks won't fail early in life like the other experiences here. I ran a set of Monarks on my 240d many years with good results. I reallly abused those injectors with WVO, kerosene, hydraulic oil and waste motor oil for years. The car didn't miss a beat.

All these YT vids about trashing prechambers using squirting injectors freaked me out so I decided to change mine out. Two were bad. They still popped but they'd squirt a stream before hitting the pop pressure.

Worked out well. Eventually I'll probably put the test rig up forsale here because I don't think I'll be testing anymore. Unless the Monarks go bad...,

tmessenger · #14 12-02-2019, 01:32 PM

Here's the youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPgjXIhvwbM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmessenger

There's little information on these Italian made Firad injector nozzles use in the older Mercedes 617 application so I put up a short video of a just rebuilt injector. I bought 6 of these nozzles so I'd have an spare in case I got a bad spray pattern. No problems at all, the patterns looked good to me and they were easy to setup. My 300D is a non turbo so release pressures were set at (3) at 1725 psi, (1) at 1700 psi, and (1) at 1750 psi.

I don't have enough post to include a youtube link so just search under: Firad injector nozzle test Mercedes 300D on youtube and it will come up.

Regards,
Tim

Jarod · #15 12-02-2019, 03:17 PM

I put a set of Firad 314s in my blue car not long ago.

The old nozzles were peeing and spraying really weird, I grabbed them out of a car in a junkyard before I knew much about rebuilding injectors and just threw them in.

The car has always had a little metallic sounding knock, very rythmic, I thought it was the cam (thread on here somewhere where I swapped that)
It seems to come and go a little, but the car has excellent oil pressure, no noticeable metallic material in the oil.

The new nozzles seemed to help substantially, taking away the rythmic part of it, just leaving what sounds to be a generic "diesel clatter", I need to look into my chain stretch and timing most likely at this point.

They certainly smoothed the engine out a ton, and after putting a few hundred miles on it, it feels like they've settled in nice and it makes phenomenal low end power without any noticeable smoke.

It seems to choke a little once you get going but I'm suspicious of either a failed overboost solenoid or a plugged tank strainer, I'll look into those sometime soon, It feels like its running N/A, who knows I might be in the market to rebuild my turbo or look into upgrading to a VGT or something.